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Windward boat

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FireballNeil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote FireballNeil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Windward boat
    Posted: 19 Jun 07 at 8:12pm
Overtaking boat is possibly the biggest myth ever!
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ChrisJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 07 at 8:17pm

The International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (i.e. the NON racing rules) still have an "overtaking boat keeps clear", but the racing rules only have clear astern / clear ahead and windward / leeward rules.

 

The windward boat has to keep clear. But windward doesn't need to anticipate the need to keep clear until the overlap exists. Once the overlap is created, they have to keep clear (luff / tack etc.) If the change of course they make while keeping clear (stern swinging) hits leeward boat, then leeward is in the wrong (not giving enough room).

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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Moo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 07 at 10:17pm
Originally posted by HannahJ

Scooby Simon, no overtaking boat rule?


Think about it Hannah. Imagine two boats side by side. One boat is going slightly faster, then the other might speed up, then one might slow down and so on. So in some circumstances it is impossible to establish who is the overtaking boat. I believe the overtaking boat rule was taken out of the racing rules just as I was starting to sail which was in the 1970's.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 4:35am

Originally posted by WildWood

Is it correct then that there is no need to be clear ahead, and leeward boats can luff from the moment they become overlapped ?

What do you mean by "luff"? L can sail her proper course, which may be higher than W's proper course. L can't put the tiller down hard, which is what is usually meant by a "luff".

I'm not too sure the rules have changed in this respect. What did fundamentally change a decade ago were the rules around what L could do if threatened by W, with the demise of the "mast abeam" curtailment of luffing rights.

It's a little simplistic to say there is "no overtaking rule". Rule 17 discusses what a boat which establishes an overlap to leeward from astern can and cannot do. Establishing an overlap from astern is "overtaking" even if that word isn't used.

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Contender443 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 8:35am

Ah but if you are not racing then the overtaking boat is a very important rule. It is part of collision regs.

So say L is racing and W is just out for an afternoon cruise in the Solent. I would guess L has to abide by collision regs and keep clear.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 10:19am
Originally posted by Contender443

So say L is racing and W is just out for an afternoon cruise in the Solent. I would guess L has to abide by collision regs and keep clear.


Exactly so. Racing rules only apply to boats that have agreed to use them by entering races held under ISAF rules. If in doubt colregs. Many racing sailors would do well to remember that!

Edited by JimC
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 10:26am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Contender443

So say L is racing and W is just out for an afternoon cruise in the Solent. I would guess L has to abide by collision regs and keep clear.


Exactly so. Racing rules only apply to boats that have agreed to use them by entering a race held under ISAF rules. If in doubt colregs. Many racing sailors would do well to remember that!

 

Now, how about this.

Boat A is over taking boat B

Boat A is sailing in race Y

Boat B is sailing in race Z

Can A use the colregs as the boats are not sailing in the SAME race ?   Or does the fact that both boats are using the ISAF rules take precidence in this case of different races but under the same rules ?

 



Edited by Scooby_simon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Calum_Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 10:39am
Ok so some key points of the rules are being missed here but i have to go to work so il save it for later
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 11:49am
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Can A use the colregs as the boats are not sailing in the SAME race?

OK OK, I've changed it to "entering races" held under ISAF rules
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 12:03pm

My understanding was always

If boats are racing, whether or not they are in the same race, shared the same start or sailing the same course, the RRS apply.

A racing yacht has right of way over a cruising yacht under the collision regs. (in days gone by, a square burgee indicated a racing yacht, a triangular showed cruising)

Non-racing yachts are governed by the collision regs.

No doubt someone will tell me if I'm wrong.

Ian



Edited by Ian29937
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