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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 04 at 5:14pm

Originally posted by iansmithofotley

Finally, I can never understand why some classes do not submit any information at all, or the fact that it has to be chased after by Y & Y.  If people really cared about their class of boat then the class association and retailers should be only too willing to provide information.Ian  (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)

Are you now, or have you ever been, involved with running a class association? I was for several years, and getting people to help was like getting blood out of a stone. This was despite the fact that the class was thriving. It is the "someone ought to" syndrome. Someone ought to do it, but not me because I'm too busy.

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Brian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 04 at 5:59pm
i noticed that the RS800 didnt have a latest sail number and new boats
this year?

Edited by Brian
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iansmithofotley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iansmithofotley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 04 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Are you now, or have you ever been, involved with running a class association? I was for several years, and getting people to help was like getting blood out of a stone. This was despite the fact that the class was thriving. It is the "someone ought to" syndrome. Someone ought to do it, but not me because I'm too busy.

Hi Stefan,

No, I have not been involved in running a class association.  If ever I did take on such a job then I would do it to the best of my abilty and for the benefit of the members. I agree wholeheartedly with your last two sentences, I have experienced the same problems at my own club, but there again, it happens in all clubs and not just sailing clubs, it's always the same few people that do all the work.

From my own experience, I have found that, generally, if you give people responsibility, then most people want to do a good job and won't let you down. I once wrote comprehensive 'job descriptions' for committee members, at my club, covering every task that you could think of, that needed doing in the club, it included tasks such as the topic that we are talking about now. The idea was to to make sure that everything got done and everyone knew who was doing what. What happened?  My idea failed - people did not want to be told what they should do and the job descriptions were never implemented.  What happens now? Not much gets done because everybody leaves jobs for somebody else. So, yes, I continually hear "Someone ought to ----- but not me".

Going back to the original point, the amount of information that Y & Y require for the 'Racing Classes Review" is miniscule and much of it, such as length, beam, sail areas, etc., remain the same.  It's all about people taking on responsibility and making things happen.

Ian  (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 04 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by iansmithofotley

Hi Stefan,


No, I have not been involved in running a class association.  If ever I did take on such a job then I would do it to the best of my abilty and for the benefit of the members.



The trouble is what can happen is that there isn't anyone up for the job who has the time and committment to do it to the best of their ability, so some poor sod who hasn't really got the tim or the energy ends up volunteering to do some kind of job on the grounds that its better to have it done badly than not at all.

I can't remember ever a time in any class I've been associated with where all the committee posts had multiple nominees at the AGM...
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Rob.e View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rob.e Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 04 at 8:32pm

Thats kind of how I got my class rep job: I knew I didn't have the experience or knowledge to do the job properly, but nobody else volounteered, and I cared about the class, and wanted to put something back! Predictably, having given up hours of my time and put in a lot of effort, all I got was moans, so I resigned! After that, someone more suitable took over, so it turned out OK in the end!!

On the subject of class numbers, I was impressed when I saw RS300 no 501, as the last I'd seen had been 48something, but when I asked RS, they explained that it can be hard to sell the numbers before the hundred, so they just skipped a few. I am sure the older classes are more honest, as they are not driven by the same commercial nescessities. They also probably started numbering at 1, I wasn't impressed when I found out there where 300 less RS300's than I'd thought, (them having started at 300).

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 04 at 4:47am
Originally posted by Rob.e

I am sure the older classes are more honest, as they are not driven by the same commercial nescessities. They also probably started numbering at 1, I wasn't impressed when I found out there where 300 less RS300's than I'd thought, (them having started at 300).



Just about all the SMODs except I think the Bethwaite boats indulge in high number starts. the rs400 at 400 I think, the 5 Tonner at 5000 and so on.

But of the older classes the Enterprise for one was notorious for having gaps in the number range. Allocating batches to builders who then didn't build all their allocation, stuff like that I believe. My father built what was probably one of the last wooden Gulls, which was 1786 back in about 72, at the same time they started the round bilge fibreglass ones at 1800 and skipped the rest of 1780s/90s, so there's nothing new. (If you've got Gull 1788 I bet that's our boat with the number changed after it got nicked!)

Edited by JimC
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ChrisJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 04 at 9:46am

The SMOD's don't only inflate the numbers. Sometimes they are well underestimated as well.

 

Take the RS400. The guide says: latest number 1227. That is a boat that is sailing on the East Coast, and has been since the middle of March this year. Numbers 1246 and later were new in August. So what the actual latest number is, I am not sure.

 

An excellent guide - but it needs to be read with the understanding that the data is hard to obtain, it comes from many different sources that are hard to verify, and once published it is going to be checked with a fine tooth comb by thousands of people! 

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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 04 at 12:10pm

... the sad muppets that we are!

My wife called me a 'Dinghy Anorak' after about 6 months of us meeting, I was so shocked because I thought we were the coolest people in the world... we are arn't we?

Graduate 2157, Laser 147050
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Doctor Clifford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Doctor Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 04 at 12:34pm
come to think of it, Spitfire kite area is out by 10 sqm!
regards
Dr. Clifford

take two tablets twice daily
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iansmithofotley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iansmithofotley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 04 at 2:38pm

Hi ChrisJ,

I think that one of the problems, with the figures, is the time that the review is published. Until the last two years, the 'Racing Classes Review' was always a part of Y & Y but now it is done as a supplement.  The review has always been published in late November.  Bearing in mind the difficulties in getting the information from the relevant sources, no doubt Y & Y must have to send out requests in, say September, if not earlier. Some of the figures relate to 'latest sail number' and 'number of boats (built or sold) in 2004', or whatever. If requests are submitted promptly then we are only getting information, even if it is accurate, which applies from 1st January until, say September.

In relation to the RS 400, I suspect that the figures are inaccurate.  This is because the figures quoted for the past few years for Year, S/N and New Boats are:  1998 - 863/135,   1999 - 969/111,   2000 - 1058/95,   2001 - 1116/60,   2002 - 1174/60,   2003 - 1221/55,   2004 - 1227/6. It can be easily seen that the figures just don't add up, for the reasons already outlined and the figure of '6' for 2004 is just wrong.  The latest number that I have seen in RS 400 results is 1241 but more will have been sold since then.

Like Jim, I like to see accurate information being published as I vehemently care about our sport and it does not help anyone who is new to dinghy sailing, or who is thinking of changing class, if incorrect details are provided. We should all try to help Y & Y to get it right as they can only publish the information which they have been given.

Ian  (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)

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