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2 handed boat sailed single handed

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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 07 at 8:51am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Yes, I used to take pity on Laser sailors, and actually recommended we allow them to use whatever rig they liked on the day (all the while they weren't wining everything!).

Now i'm scoring, and groan every time I go into Sailwave and try to sort out who's using what this week/race, changing the PY etc...



We do that as well but we tell them if they want 1 set of results for the series they will always be scored on the fastest PY. It works well until you discover that a radial rig is faster than a full rig in a blow (by being easier to manage).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 07 at 11:03pm
Originally posted by Adam MR 1137

The question is can we justify adjusting say the merlin py and not the others, or adjust the wayfarer and merlin but not the N12. Or must we adjust all if we adjust any, or none?

As a club you're at liberty to adjust as few or as many handicaps as you like. I would note though that the general opinion tn both the Merlin and National classes is that older boats are much more competetive in confined water and river conditions, so for them to ask for a full age allowance in exactly those conditions is a bit cheeky:-)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 07 at 9:14pm
The Merlin Rocket association gives (I think) advice on PYs for older Merlins and perhaps the N12 assoc. will do the same.  If not the CVRDA use different handicaps for different agres of Merlin and N12 but you'll have to convert these to modern ones as they use the old 100 based system.  I know I groan every time the Finn handicap reduces and I'm expected to sail my 44 year old boat faster.  However I know that some old Merlins are very good on rivers, particularly with new rigs.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rob.e Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 07 at 8:19pm
We allow Lasers to register the rig (say standard) and if they choose to use a smaller rig, up to them: that seems to work OK
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 07 at 11:31am

Yes, I used to take pity on Laser sailors, and actually recommended we allow them to use whatever rig they liked on the day (all the while they weren't wining everything!).

Now i'm scoring, and groan every time I go into Sailwave and try to sort out who's using what this week/race, changing the PY etc...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 07 at 8:20am
pity the poor race officer and that unsung hero of some many clubs, the scorer. Life is so much easier for them if a boat is entered for a series and is assumed to remain the same throughout the series. So PY handicaps can be altered at the start of the series (no spinnaker, no crew etc) but should remain unchanged.

Otherwise competitors will chop and change according to the conditions. The classic situation is the Laser hull with it's 3 (now 4) rig options. Do you allow the  boat to  choose the rig according to the conditions on the day. In which case the RO must be aware that this may happen and must carefully note what rig is being used, so that the scorer can apply the correct PY. Apply the KISS principle.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote FreshScum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 07 at 10:59pm

PY should be a guide for clubs to use. I think its supposed to be adjusted by club ROs as they see fit depending on local conditions, boat conditions etc. Club racing is supposed to be fun, no one should take it too seriously. Handicap events like the Tiger and Bloody Mary that people make a big effort in money or time to get to are maybe more important, but its always possible to blame your handicap for a win or loss.

So basically, you can do what you want! Unless you're competing in the series as well and just make all your competitors handicaps really hard to sail to. That would probably break Rule 2.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Adam MR 1137 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 07 at 9:49pm

Hi,

this thread has appeared at an appropriate time, as i am on the club committee and we have had an applictaion from a wayfarer sailor whoc wishes to have his handicap adjusted as he never uses his spinneker, as we sial on a very narrow river which does not allow the space for spinnaker sailing.

I do not have a problem with this just asking for some suggestions as to number maybe?

The only problem which does occur, is a very good sailor (from our small club point of view) who sials an admirals cup national 12 has also expressed a wish that we adjust his py to meet the development state of his boat he is suggesting 1104 for his boat, a merlin sailor who sails a boat built in 1969 has also requested the same thing. The problem we have is the natinal 12 wins without an adjusted py, adn the wayfarer is competitive on all but the very light days, and i am sure that is his technique that slows him down.  The merlin sailor suffers greatly from his handicap as he cannot sail with a spinnaker and his boat is 40 years behind the py number and the boat developments.

The question is can we justify adjusting say the merlin py and not the others, or adjust the wayfarer and merlin but not the N12. Or must we adjust all if we adjust any, or none?

any thoughts would be apprecaited,

Adam

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 07 at 2:28pm

We had a liberal approach at Wilsonian until someone took a Buzz out in a F2-3 and blew even the Phantoms away. There was a similar effect sailing the Laser 3000 in lighter winds. All the while the sailors weren't overpowered they had a very significant advantage and made a nonsense of the PY.

Of course, that might have been reversed in a blow, though a 100kg helm would, I suspect, have a field day on the wire, having the righting moment of a smaller two-man crew and less weight overall.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Yello Streak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 07 at 11:59am

I suppose the big question is when a change of crew number happens...

It could be argued (and has been on many occasions) that it is slightly unfair to leave the crew behind when the wind drops, or conversely, phone up your Rugby player sized mate when a force 6/7 is forecast..

In most classes where 'equalisation' is branded, then crew number, weight and sometimes height are applied as part of the measurement certificate.. there must be a rationale for this approach and should this approach be adopted by other calsses or even as a club ruling for example:  should the RS400 (for example) sailor have two separate sets of race results... one set for two up and the other for single-handed?   fair - possilbly, practical - probably not..

In my eyes, it has to be down to the discretion of the race officer or further still, the race committee at a policy level. This may however have a detrimental effect on some of the smaller clubs who occasionally struggle to get two or more boats out for racing..  Tough decision for the race officials I think..

 

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