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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 07 at 4:58pm

Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Matt Jackson

It's seems like the burdon (and bad feeling when an officious RO disqualifies you for not signing off) on all sailors isn't justified by the good it does though.

Burden? At most clubs this is a matter of walking a few yards and picking up a pen.

Yes, burdon. At our club it's a 100m walk and you have to sign off within 15 minutes of finishing so you can't stay out and practice. Also there is never a pen, the sheet gets wet and can't be written on, you have to wait for up to 50 sailors to sign first and when you forget it's a bloody long run in a harness when the 5 min gun has already gone! I'm glad at your club it's easy but at mine it's a waste of time and pain in the transom.



Edited by Matt Jackson
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MRJP BUZZ 585 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MRJP BUZZ 585 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 07 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by Matt Jackson

Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Matt Jackson

It's seems like the burdon (and bad feeling when an officious RO disqualifies you for not signing off) on all sailors isn't justified by the good it does though.

Burden? At most clubs this is a matter of walking a few yards and picking up a pen.

 within 15 minutes of finishing so you can't stay out and practice.



Yea i agree with that, at our club we don't have to sign off so we can stay out which is great
 especially if you have a bad race and you want to practice a particular manuvour that you couldn't get right in the race


Edited by MRJP BUZZ 585
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Post Options Post Options   Quote vscott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 07 at 6:15pm

We are meant to sign on and off to abide with local rules & regs but have not been very good about enforcing it. 

As we are as small club the OOD is aware of all competitors coming off the water so the signing off is not the method practically used to see if competitors are safely home. Also Patrol boats are meant to stay out until all competitors are ashore.  We had better decide what they should do if someone wants to go and play.  Say that if they do not go straight ashore they are no longer a competitor?  They do have an hour to sign off.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 07 at 9:20pm

Well I think you should sign off at some time, but remember the whole racing thing is supposed to be enjoyable so I guess its down to you guys to organise your club.  You should be able to stay out after racing for a reasonable time and surely there is a way of organising it so that you dont have to walk miles to sign off.  And please it must be possible to arrange for there to be sharp pencils and a waterproof cover or some system which ensures you are aware that you are declaring that you sailed by the rules.

Time to get out there and organise it, I'd say.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 07 at 9:28pm

I've read this thread again and I must say I hate those Race Officers who enjoy kicking people out of a race just becuase hey haven't signed off.  When I'm RO I go round and ask people who have forgotten to sign off when they can.

I once beat an arch rival only to discover that I hadn't signed on!  Since we sail on an estuary and mostly out of sight of the club we have strict policy of sign on and off.  So that was me out.  It didn't matter long term though - I still had that satisfied glow.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Buzz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 07 at 10:27am

We sail on the sea so its essential that people sign on and off. We use rubber band on helm and crew and on trolley. Rescue boats cant stand down untill everyone accounted for. If trolley left on beach and weather good we would use all rescue boats to do a search. If weather bad and we were really concerned we would inform coastguard and request a full on search.

If there is a problem the coastguard may call you to check that you have all boats accounted for both on and off the water. This enables them to identify if casualty belongs to your club or not.  

If someone were to die then the race officer and safety boat coordinator would be responsible and would be called by the coroner. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 07 at 10:45am
Originally posted by Buzz

If someone were to die then the race officer and safety boat coordinator would be responsible



So that sailor didnt CHOOSE to go afloat then??  At what point did people stop becoming responsible for themselves??

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Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 07 at 11:48am
Originally posted by Doug.H

Originally posted by Buzz

If someone were to die then the race officer and safety boat coordinator would be responsible



So that sailor didnt CHOOSE to go afloat then??  At what point did people stop becoming responsible for themselves??

Hang on there. Buzz isn't quite right when he talks about responsibility. If there was a fatality, the RO and safety boat operators might be called by the coroner. The coroner would want to know if the race was run in reasonable conditions, whether the competitor to safety boat ratio was adequate, what comms there was between race officer/safety boats and what other safety precautions were in place (such as sign-out). All this to establish whether RO was negilgent is his duties. The sign-out process itself is an indicator of good practice but on its own doesn't count for much.

Our sailing instructions for winter racing are different than for the summer series. We too race on open sea. In the winter the SIs stipulate wetsuit/drysuit and sign-out. The course marks are within a smaller area than in the summer which allows the RO and rescue tighter control over the fleet. This probably has more impact on overall safety than sign-out.

Nevertheless failure to sign-out leads to an automatic DNS (only a protest panel can award DSQ). Actually I think this is a good thing. It demonstrates that you are thinking clearly before you launch and that can't be a bad thing.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 07 at 3:30pm

I'm with Rick and Matt on this. For the most part, the so called safety systems are a pain and probably wouldn't actually save anyone as in 99% of cases the 'search' only starts (if it starts at all) after a time limit (and usually thats quite generous. The search then proceeds (with little or no urgency) into the dinghy park, the changing rooms, the bar / galley / wherever and then the "did anyone see him go home / out on the water etc" questioning starts. So eventually a signing off sheet might help the race / rescue team to realise someone really is missing - by which time - -

As to rules observance - actually it's easier to cheat with the signing off system than a system where you have to actively retire.

I know because it's happened to me - I once started a protest against an individual who was clearly in the wrong. . He admitted it, apologised for his error of judgement and said he'd retire. I checked the sheet when I signed off and he hadn't signed off - all well and good so I went back to my accomodation.

The next day, he had a result - and when I confronted him, he said his Dad had made him sign off because he knew I'd left the site and wouldn't know!!!!

The protest committee wouldn't hear a late protest. My point is he couldn't have done that if he'd had to 'actively' retire as I'd have seen his signature in the relevant box, or if not insisted he signed it to retire.

I also don't buy into the 'walk of shame' or saving face theory - in my view there's no shame in admitting a mistake - it shows maturity and good sportsmanship.



Edited by Hector
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