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Increasing mast rake in stronger winds |
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Andi 
Newbie 
Joined: 10 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 17 |
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 Topic: Increasing mast rake in stronger windsPosted: 18 Sep 04 at 8:31am |
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IWe had a Topper Spice twin trapeze for a while and yes; mainsheet tension and no kicker and we had way too much power in 10mph wind. I can see that on boats with stiffer masts and kicker not mounted on the mast ( ours practically is ) (and probably with a less neutral spreader setting than we use) the increase of mast rake does cause various secondary changes: lower shrouds slacken, spreaders induce more pre-bend, jib leads effectively move up and aft. Kicker not on the mast like in an Ent is good because you get more jib luff wire tension when you use kicker ( especially if you have stiff mast which doesn't counteract all the extra luff tension by bending so much that it slackens the shrouds and hence the jib luff. - Andi |
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PhantomHelm
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Joined: 29 Apr 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
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Posted: 07 Nov 04 at 5:58pm |
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I thought the idea was that dropping the mast back reduces rig tension, allowing the mast to bend off sidewards in gusts and hence depowering?
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redback
Really should get out more 
Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
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Posted: 13 Nov 04 at 11:01pm |
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I've tried that and it works a bit, but in my class we move the pins for the shrouds and retension to get the same rig tension and that works even better. |
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PhantomHelm
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Joined: 29 Apr 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
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Posted: 14 Nov 04 at 5:07pm |
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Yes, you can do that but it's a hell of a lot more difficult to do on the water! What I usually try to do it drop the mast back on an adjustable forestay when beating, and then retension the rig when reaching for maximum power. Difficult to do this by adjusting the position of chain plates/stay adjusters.
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redback
Really should get out more
Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
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Posted: 16 Nov 04 at 12:35am |
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Yes it is difficult but here's a cunning plan. In strong winds put 2 pins through the end of the shrouds and this gives the extra a rake. If the wind dies off whilst afloat you can then ease the rig tension, pull out the bottom pins and retension. And hey presto the rake is reduced and no danger of losing the rig over the side. We don't worry too much about too much rake ruining our off wind performance since we bang up our 18m gennaker.
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Andi
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Joined: 10 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 17 |
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Posted: 16 Nov 04 at 5:55pm |
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I like the sound of but don't understand the two pins idea. We use two pins but the upper one is there only as a retainer to trap the wider part of shroud terminal in place - I wouldn't like to rely on a fully tensioned shroud staying in place - the pin might bend a bit. What type of chain plate and shroud terminal do you have? I have started raking the rig again in the mental winds we have been having through Sept/Oct. I do this ONLY to achieve an open upper jib leach as the RS200 jib tracks are basically in the wrong place and don't go far enough aft. With a single sail like a Phantom dumping forestay tension sounds like an excellent idea as a means of increasing rake ( no jib luff to worry about ) Reduced mast support at spreader height should allow windward bend and the upper mast to fall off ( even more than the ( you lucky sods) carbon stick would normally do. - Andi |
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redback
Really should get out more
Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
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Posted: 17 Nov 04 at 12:09am |
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Hi Andi. You'll find you can get two pins through the eye of the shrouds, one above the other. Hence if you slaken the rig and pull the bottom one out the mast will rake further forward, and there's no danger of losing the rig over the side. It can be done whilst afloat.
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Andi
Newbie
Joined: 10 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 17 |
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Posted: 17 Nov 04 at 4:04pm |
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I like the sound of this but our shroud terminals have only a round hole the same diameter as the pin. I will have to see if we can get some shrouds made up with the same terminal as yours - our system works securely for on the water rig changes but it is a fiddle in choppy water trying to line up the pin with the hole. - Andi |
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Barty
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 240 |
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Posted: 04 Jan 05 at 3:07pm |
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After extensive testing we have found that mast rake on the Playmobil Catamaran makes little difference in performance. Can anyone confirm this? [see 'Playmobil Review' topic under For the Magazine] |
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NeilP
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 23 Nov 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 271 |
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Posted: 06 Jan 05 at 4:32pm |
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The whole point of changing mast rake is that it affects many different aspects of the rig - nearly all of them in exactly the way we are looking for in a breeze. The obvious one is the slot becoming more open, but the change in spreader/shroud geometry allows the mast to bend more, flattening the main and opening the leech, which also moves the centre of effort of the main forward somewhat, helping with balance. I could go on and on, but the fact is it works. I've sailed a Flying Dutchman for some ten years now, and raking the mast in a breeze is the only way to sail it. Fully powered-up in 10 knots, and as the breeze builds we rake the mast, pull the board back in it's slot and just go faster and faster!! If you are not convinced about rake being fast, I would strongly suggest you go for a blast in a boat that you can adjust on the water with string. If anyone wants a go, I can convince you in 30 seconds. Neil |
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