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Chew my RS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Controversial Topic of the Week
    Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 10:08am

A new thread, to spice up the midweek montony...

Does the N12 have a future? Expensive, slow and for (increasingly rare) small people - it doesn't seem to fit the bill for many people. It may be celebrating its 70th birthday this year but I don't reckon it will make 80. I notice that there is a discussion on the N12's own forum about a wishlist of modifications to the rules. I half hope that none are adopted so that the class dwindles, resulting in one less class to dilute fleets... Not really, just playing devils advocate.

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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 10:38am
If you look hard enough you'll find that last years 2nd placed UK Cherub
Nationals team have a modified N12 hull under them. All the mods are
above the water line. Also if you look a bit harder still you would see that
it's shape is very similar to the majority of 12ft skiffs.

As for comments about slow.... you should sail one. There's a big
difference between physical speed around a course and the feeling of
speed you get from a boat.

They are a perfect boat for Farther / Mum / son / daughter combinations
that actually want to use there head whilst sailing a race or when not
sailing, rather than performing like a robot sailing an arbitrary sailing
vehicle. Especially in restricted waters. And until you have sailed down the
river at Putney in some breeze you have missed a huge aspect of sailing.

In my opinion they be around a hell of a lot longer than any RS class.

And don't forget without them you are likely not to have the mass dinghy
market we have now.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Adds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 10:46am
Even though the RS200 has taken most of the N12 fleet. I think the N12 are great boats especially in restricted waters. But the general sailor wants a little bit more fun for the crew downwind. which equals the RS200.
Cheers Dudes
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5420 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 5420 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 11:14am
its not all about speed a slow boat can be exiting as well and a N12 is when its windy iv only sailed one once and i loved every min of it
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 11:22am
Originally posted by Chew my RS

I notice that there is a discussion on the N12's own forum about a wishlist of modifications to the rules.


That's a favourite game in any open rule class. You can kill a class equally thoroughly by making or by not making rule changes.

There's certainly a place for a spinnaker free boat, and there are plenty of Twelves being built, the class looks pretty healthy to me.
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allanorton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote allanorton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 11:28am

I do like the look of n12s', but they're not for me, I'm 12.5 stone, so where would I find a decent 5.5 stone crew?

I agree with Jacksparrow that they will be around for a lot longer than the rs200.



Edited by allanorton
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 12:28pm
"And don't forget without them you are likely not to have the mass dinghy
market we have now."

Great boats,  but Beecher Moore (who played a major role in the creation of a hell of a lot of the mass dinghy market we have now) once called the 3 classic British development classes (MR, 14, N12) something like "the greatest waste of time and energy in sailing history" because in their first 30 years, they got a total of about 2,000 boats between them.

Certainly history seems to say that the sport did not take off as a mass market exercise until boats like GP14s, Ents, Cadets etc came out, and they are probably not the sort of boat the N12 class would like.

Of course, Holt himself started designing N12s (I think......can't be bothered to look it up so may be wrong) and I'm not sure Moore was right in his criticism. But it was an interesting angle, just the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Shingle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 12:44pm

Originally posted by Chew my RS

Not really, just playing devils advocate.

Mission acomplished

Drink Feck girls!
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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 12:52pm
It's easy for a class to keep mass appeal when they change their rules (making the whole fleet obsolete) and reinvent the class every few years . I think the development classes will be around forever because there's always going to be chequebook sailors .
RS400 1289, Laser 203001
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 1:34pm
Ummm... looking at my record book in 1966. 30 years after they began
N12's numbers were at around number 2400. So I'm not sure thats quite
right. There was a little thing called a WORLD WAR in the middle of those
30 years as well.

Originally posted by Chris 249

"And don't forget without them you are likely not to
have the mass dinghy

market we have now."

Great boats,  but Beecher Moore (who played a major role in the
creation of a hell of a lot of the mass dinghy market we have now) once
called the 3 classic British development classes (MR, 14, N12)
something like "the greatest waste of time and energy in sailing
history" because in their first 30 years, they got a total of about
2,000 boats between them.

Certainly history seems to say that the sport did not take off as a
mass market exercise until boats like GP14s, Ents, Cadets etc came out,
and they are probably not the sort of boat the N12 class would like.

Of course, Holt himself started designing N12s (I think......can't be
bothered to look it up so may be wrong) and I'm not sure Moore was
right in his criticism. But it was an interesting angle, just the same.

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