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Topper replacement foils and 4.2 weight range
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CT249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 399 		Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Topper replacement foils and 4.2 weight range
    Posted: 02 Nov 22 at 12:10pm
Our club was kindly donated some very old Toppers, now largely replaced for training by Picos. I'm wondering about renovating the Toppers. Their main problem is that the ancient plastic foils are chipped, scarred and beaten.

Given that they are small boats and from what I can recall have thick foils, would I be correct in thinking that plywood ones could be a reasonable and cheap option? The issue is simply strength, and obviously plywood is not ideal - but has anyone had experience with ply foils in similar boats and do they survive or snap?

I know some people can build proper wooden foils easily, but I have too much on my plate and I want to hand the local retired men's woodworking group an easy project in ply (or perhaps solid pine).

Secondly, do people agree with the public weight range of the Topper 4.2 of 35-45kg? That's lighter than the weight ranges claimed for Opti sailors, so I assume Topper are just trying to tip 45kg+ sailors into standard Toppers?

We have no class racing in the very few Toppers in Australia (although not long ago the class claimed we did have lots of active boats in that work of fiction called a World Sailing annual class report) so this isn't about being competitive, just how well the boat will handle and sail in general.

In a way I'd be happy if it felt a bit dull because we don't want kids to spend years hiring out the five club Toppers instead of either buying Lasers or Optis. The Optis are really the only practical junior boats for private ownership in our area and I'm not sure how to get around the issue that younger kids will have to move backwards in speed to get their own boat, which is one reason to make sure the Toppers are not too well refurbished!





Edited by CT249 - 02 Nov 22 at 12:11pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6625 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 22 at 3:34pm
They're pretty thick foils, I would have thought ply would be OK, but I think I'd be happier with strips of solid wood. Boats where ply boards work typically have even less shape than Topper foils. Because the original foils are heavy anyway (as you probably know Topper foils sink) you can use the strongest cheap timber available, don't need to consider weight, so you can use a strong hardwood if that's cost effective - or maybe a mix with hardwood front back for damage resistance and in the middle for strength, but the rest in pine.

If you get your club to give them a layer of glass that would be better for durability and freedom from warping, but its a fair old jump in the amount of work required and fairing glass layup isn't the most congenial exercise.



Edited by JimC - 02 Nov 22 at 4:06pm
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Riv View Drop Down
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Posts: 352 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 22 at 7:20pm
Topper foils are quite thick, ply in the UK is available on 3,6,9,12,18 and 25 at my local builders merchants. You'd have to get one that fits without making thinner as that will remove the top longitudinal layers weakening it.
You could laminate some of the others to get a good fit.
However I would go to the local wood machinist and get them to run up a load of trip to the correct thicknesses,laminate it all and shapeit like an Enterprise Centreboard whereabout the front and back third only are shaped.
Easier and more fun. Then just paint.
Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74.
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CT249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 399 		Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 22 at 12:18am
Thanks guys. I will try and find some decent timber but it's not easy in this small town, so we may end up using ply.
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Oatsandbeans View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oatsandbeans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 22 at 7:18am
If you do it with timber-the best way is to get it bonded up from strips -typically 50mm wide. This way it will remain stable and not warp( sorry to make the job more complicated, but a thick plank of wood will end up like a banana when it takes on a bit of moisture)
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Chris Bowen View Drop Down
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Posts: 8 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris Bowen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 22 at 8:06am
You need to cut the timber into strips and turn over alternate strips before gluing it back together. It may still warp but the warp in each strip will be small and balance out the warp in the neighbouring strip so that it appears not to warp.
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Riv View Drop Down
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Posts: 352 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 22 at 12:22pm
I made one out of old Tongue and groove floor boarding. Rip it up into strips, throw away the really knotty bits. Best waterproof PVA from builders merchant worked fine. 
Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6625 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 22 at 3:21am
Originally posted by CT249

Thanks guys. I will try and find some decent timber but it's not easy in this small town, so we may end up using ply.

Consider reclaimed timber. Tables, pianos, roof joists, anything made of solid wood. You're in the unusual position of not having to worry about weight. Your retired men's group may well be competent at sourcing reclaimed timber, and should know what timbers would be good. I had a vintage Moth with an oak centreboard! Far too heavy but plenty strong enough. A native equivalent would do for you.



Edited by JimC - 07 Nov 22 at 3:26am
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 22 at 10:56am
Bear in mind the stress of rightin the boat, medium sized person on the end of the board is a lot of stress for cheap plywood. A layer of glass cloth might be a good answer, you could then get away with cheap plywood? Using what's available cheap or free is one thing, but when you've put time in you don't want it to break. You might start a little industry of replica Topper foils to upset a few zealots on here.....
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