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Spindizzy View Drop Down
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Posts: 2 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Spindizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 22 at 12:47pm
Trouble with sew in masthead buoyancy is you cant wrap the sail well around the mast on typical training boats that are usually stored assembled and wrapped. A clip on masthead float is probably still the best option for sailors that would benefit or feel more confident. Also in regions where there is strong current and wind a non turtled boat can drift away faster then you can swim to it. Seen several rescues where you pick the person up first as the boats already left the area by itself. Floats are great, just not in all scenarios.
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Dakota View Drop Down
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Posts: 136 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dakota Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 22 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by Riv

I expect that we will fit some sort of mast head flotation, all the other Dinghies we have use it.(with the exception of the yawl and lugger).
As these will be new boats I'll get our village sailmaker to put on sewn flotation to the top of the sails.
The Wanderer class had a meet at our club last weekend and several had them

Mast head floats are often a good idea for club boats. I take it your club members boats don’t have to have them ? 
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 22 at 1:11pm
I don't know if the volume is mandated by some marine safety code but to my mind many dinghies have buoyancy reserves either in the wrong place or simply too much volume. Putting volume down the side is the easy option but as shown by the Hadron there are better alternatives, all it took was logical thought.
 
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3393 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 22 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by Spindizzy

Also in regions where there is strong current and wind a non turtled boat can drift away faster then you can swim to it. Seen several rescues where you pick the person up first as the boats already left the area by itself. Floats are great, just not in all scenarios.


Current can't cause a boat to drift away from a sailor in the water but wind certainly can.
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Riv View Drop Down
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Posts: 353 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 22 at 7:05pm
Fortunately the river Dart at Stoke Gabriel where we sail is relatively narrow and boats don't go far. We've had more trouble with masts in the mud and all the trouble and damage from that.
Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74.
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Riv View Drop Down
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Posts: 353 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 22 at 7:15pm
Club members went out in 15-20mph this morning and here is a brief report from one of our organisers:

We had 5 manage to use the Neo today.
We swapped around from Laser to Neo to compare on different tacks.
It’s a great boat for large juniors or small adults.
I pushed it pretty hard and found it was nose diving at speed.
Up wind 8/10
Down wind 6/10
Reaching 10/10
Ease of righting 10/10
Adjustments 10/10
Need to have setup ‘bang on’ or performance lacks.
Turtles quite easily but quick to right again.
Very sensitive helm.
Dagger “hums “ at speed. Not nice !!!
Toe straps need shock cord (as we discussed).

Overall -
Will not replace Laser
Will not replace Pico or Topper unless smaller rig available.
Will be excellent in lighter winds for juniors and great for SMALL adults in a blow.
Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74.
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Dakota View Drop Down
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Posts: 136 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dakota Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 22 at 9:53pm
I always like it when my daggerboard on my D-zero hums . It means I am going really fast. 😀😀
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 22 at 9:35am
Originally posted by Do Different

It really should be uppermost in a dinghy designers mind that their boats resist the tendency for inversion. 
It is a considerable safety factor and also means the boat can be up and racing again.
Sealed carbon masts help a lot and rather than ungainly mast head floats I am surprised that more hasn't been made of thin (say 20 - 30mm) flexible foam in the top half metre of sails.
The Hadron goes a long way towards this and it is hardly rocket science to work out, pretty much O level physics.


The alternative view is that an inverted boat won't drift away from the sailor in strong winds.
I don't have a strong allegiance to either side.

If you sail anywhere with actual waves, I think virtually all boats will invert unless you have a lot of masthead buoyancy. Or a ballast keel.
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 22 at 10:15am
I don't disagree, RS. Having sailed the N. Sea off East Anglia, in actual waves a tendency for rapid inversion is slightly worrying if not too far out, masts don't do well supporting a boat as a wave passes.
My point is some boats float so high on big side tanks that they are dying to invert. And then if some of the modern crop of light high floaters have a mast head buoyancy then they drift away. 
I believe some Phantoms have flooding partial side tanks. 
Yes of course boats need to float but only just enough. Wink  
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 22 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by Riv

Club members went out in 15-20mph this morning and here is a brief report from one of our organisers:

We had 5 manage to use the Neo today.
We swapped around from Laser to Neo to compare on different tacks.
It’s a great boat for large juniors or small adults.
I pushed it pretty hard and found it was nose diving at speed.
Up wind 8/10
Down wind 6/10
Reaching 10/10
Ease of righting 10/10
Adjustments 10/10
Need to have setup ‘bang on’ or performance lacks.
Turtles quite easily but quick to right again.
Very sensitive helm.
Dagger “hums “ at speed. Not nice !!!
Toe straps need shock cord (as we discussed).

Overall -
Will not replace Laser
Will not replace Pico or Topper unless smaller rig available.
Will be excellent in lighter winds for juniors and great for SMALL adults in a blow.


Of course, the smaller rig version was the Q'ba. I know you can't put a Neo rig in a Q'ba hull, but does it work the other way round?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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