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Square tops |
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eric_c
Far too distracted from work Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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Topic: Square tops Posted: 07 Jun 22 at 3:58pm |
I think 'gust response' can happen without a square top sail. Anything with a lot of roach will surely de-power as the wind loads it, bends the mast more and the leach falls away? Doesn't tthst happen a little with a triangular sail, except it's the middle of the leach which falls away, not the top where it's wanted? Cynically, I think the move to square top rigs is 90% about 'looking modern' by apeing the skiffs. The skiffs I think partly use square tops for the same reasons Merlins have 4-sided sails, it's the most area within class rules and more of it is up where the wind is? There's also an element that lots of sail development is done in the big money 18ft skiffs, a lot of knowledge gained by direct comparison in racing. So probably a class looking to tap into the latest thought on sail design will do well to tap into that and follow the skiffs? Probably true that it's cheaper and easier to tune battens than masts? Carbon masts can be made with all sorts of characteristics, which is less easy to achieve by tapering extruded ali tube. The carbon is also lighter so maybe springs back quicker for a given 'spring force' and the characteristics of the resin perhaps affect the damping? Don't forget there is a lot of history with glass tipped masts in the B14 and AFAIK Finn and maybe OK? Likewise some catamarans have used carbon battens as well as glass. For a cheapskate club sailor like me, I think some of these sails have a lot of stress in them, resulting in shorter usable life than you get from a more traditional roached sail? And don't forget, the elliptical plaform is supposed to be most efficient? (Blah Spitfire Wing blah......) I'd be interested to know more about it, not sure what's been pubished since Bethwaite?
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Mozzy
Far too distracted from work Joined: 21 Apr 20 Online Status: Offline Posts: 209 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jun 22 at 3:43pm |
I actually think square tops are easier to get to work with a solid mast, like those used by cats rather than a whippy carbon mast seen in some other classes (skiffs). So I think they can be made to work with a pretty solid mast which is designed with very little compliance.
Cats go for rotating masts which are very stiff and need less in the way of stays to keep them upright. Then use sheet tension, Cunningham and battens to control the stability of sail (response to gusts). I think the use of carbon masts in cats is less about bend characteristics and more about weight. If you're using a stiff mast you don't have to rely on stays to keep it upright so much. And if you don't have to rely on stays you don't have bake in rig setting with stay tension and spreader length and deflection before going afloat. The penalty is having to rotate the tree trunk of a rig each tack. Trapeze skiffs with square tops don't have rotating rigs, so it pays to keep the mast diameter down. The downside of this is you need to rely on spreaders to keep the mast where you want it. It means the whole system is very complex and it's hard to get the control on that 4th corner so can mean more tuning on land.... but removes the faff of tacking the rotating the mast on the water. Personally, I don't want the tip of my mast for my square top bending dropping off to leeward in gusts at all. If the mast drops to leeward that is affectively sheeting you on. What you want is for the the fourth corner to open up or even the top batten to pop inverted. Getting that to happen is more a play with batten tension, batten stiffness, cunningham and sheet tension / kicker. Edited by Mozzy - 07 Jun 22 at 3:49pm |
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ChrisI
Posting king Joined: 09 Aug 10 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 143 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jun 22 at 3:17pm |
Square tops are in a sense just a modern interpretation of the traditional gaff rig. But is it only carbon masts that they work with, that can flex and produce the desired 'gust-response'.... or can they work with aluminium/much stiffer spars? Or could batten technology ensure that they do? (spring loaded battens!)...... Edited by ChrisI - 07 Jun 22 at 3:19pm |
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