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RRS 18 Rule change proposal |
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ClubRacer
Far too distracted from work Joined: 26 Sep 15 Online Status: Offline Posts: 210 |
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Topic: RRS 18 Rule change proposal Posted: 25 May 22 at 10:05pm |
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Interesting that I've never considered the outside boat to get mark room while being the outside boat purely by being clear ahead.
Tactically if you were overlapped outside approaching the zone you could head up massively to ensure you're clear ahead, all be it not heading anywhere near the mark. Here boat 1 would get mark room from 2? |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 May 22 at 8:39am | ||
I think most folks have simply thought of it as the boat behind not getting mark room when there's no overlap. It's not, after all, really an inside boat if there's no overlap!
With the rules as they are the trouble with any attempt to break overlap by a big change of course at the last second is the "last point of certainty" rule - the presumption that if its uncertain that an existing overlap was broken just before the zone then it wasn't and vice versa. Edited by JimC - 26 May 22 at 8:41am |
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 May 22 at 9:20pm | ||
Another way to consider that is that *by definition* you cannot be (clear) behind if you reach the zone first.
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 May 22 at 9:31pm | ||
Trouble is I think you can. If you consider the boat clear behind entering the zone directly on the rhumb line, and the boat ahead entering the zone at about 10 o'clock |
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 May 22 at 10:11pm | ||
Hmmm, I see what you mean but if you consider the race to be a race to a series of waypoints rather than the one furthest downwind, then the first boat to enter the zone is the one nearest the waypoint and therefore ahead.
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 May 22 at 10:21pm | ||
Definitions.
So ahead and astern is only related to the position of the boats, not to the position relative to the course. |
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 May 22 at 10:34pm | ||
Change the definition of that then, whilst reworking rule 18. Might cause confusion in a match race situation where boats are sailing away from the mark though!
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jun 22 at 9:48am | ||
That is how I understand it. There was a situation at an open this year where there was a line of 6 boats 1 - 6 numbered from inside to outermost) abreast approaching a gybe mark followed a couple of boat lengths astern by two more boats (7 & 8) side by side. The first 6 boats spread out to gybe and gybed into line heading for the mark at 90º to the course of the boats following from the last mark. Only the three nearest the mark could have been in the zone but, immediately after gybing, the outermost shouted "no overlap" to the following two. In my view there can be no argument that the following boats had a clear overlap at that point and also that the outermost boat could not have been in the zone. So does the call rest on whether the following boats reached the zone before or after the overlap was established by '6' gybing? |
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jun 22 at 2:09pm | ||
If they stayed parallel, it wouldn't matter, if they gybed one after the other to form line astern, probably 4 5 & 6 could still be outside the zone. 7 & 8 have the water if they get there first?
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Robert
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jun 22 at 3:26pm | ||
Yes that was my take on the situation. In the event 6 called "no overlap" on 7 which 8 disputed. In the event no contact was made and 7 & 8 decided staying out of the ways likely to be quicker than getting tangled up at the mark.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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