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Misconduct/RRS 69 Guidance

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sargesail View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 21 at 7:02am
Originally posted by Brass

Sarge,

First the guidelines don't expressly provide for justification or the defence of truth, but, of course these could be taken into account.

Second "ridiculous" is insulting on any definition.

Third, in reaching conclusions about ridiculous or not, you'd need to know all the circumstances. Maybe th RO had direction from the OA to start on time, maybe competitors were trying to manipulate the start time, maybe th RO got dud all clear from the beachmaster.

I think its pretty simple: don't backchat or be rude to race officials.


Errr there’s quite a lot for umpires etc at 52…..

Right - so I know that ridiculous will trigger you as an official.

Should this situation arrive I will (as Inwould have done) frame starting the race now as unfair and a redressable action of the RC. Hopefully the conversation buys my fellow competitors a bit more time!

I will confine myself to thinking it ridiculous.
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Brass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 21 at 9:51am
Sarge,

As a judge dealing with a rule 69 report I certainly will be inclined to consider "ridiculous" insulting and reflecting ill on the complainant's competence.

As an individual addressed, as I said in my previous post, "I think "ridiculous" is just over the line. Whether it would bother me would depend on what else was said."

As to your last para, I also referred to competitors trying to manipulate the starting time in a previous post,
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Old bloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 21 at 11:50am
And if the action does cause the race officer to be ridiculed?.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 21 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by Grumpycat

Grf it seems you don’t have much experience of protests, which is a very big surprise considering what I’ve seen of your sailing in videos  LOL


Ha, I've been in more protest rooms than you can shake a stick at, never lost one of them.


Edited by iGRF - 12 Nov 21 at 3:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote A2Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 21 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by Old bloke

And if the action does cause the race officer to be ridiculed?.

I think it’s quite simple. Ridiculing the RO is misconduct. Frame your complaint in a polite, civil, manner and you’ll be fine. Express yourself rudely and you won’t be.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 21 at 10:16pm
Originally posted by A2Z

Originally posted by Old bloke

And if the action does cause the race officer to be ridiculed?.

I think it’s quite simple. Ridiculing the RO is misconduct. Frame your complaint in a polite, civil, manner and you’ll be fine. Express yourself rudely and you won’t be.

So what happens in the reverse situation? The race officer is rude to a competitor(s)?

I know from multiple sources that this has happened at a championships in the last couple of years but I'm effectively only party to one side of the story and will not risk identifying the event.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 21 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by Paramedic

So what happens in the reverse situation? The race officer is rude to a competitor(s)?
I know from multiple sources that this has happened at a championships in the last couple of years but I'm effectively only party to one side of the story and will not risk identifying the event.


If you think a race official has engaged in misconduct or contravened the Race Officials Code of Conduct, you can write a complaint to the host club or the RYA.

That will be dealt with administratively. It is not subject to the RRS.


Edited by Brass - 23 Nov 21 at 11:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 21 at 8:38am
Originally posted by Brass

Originally posted by Paramedic

So what happens in the reverse situation? The race officer is rude to a competitor(s)?
I know from multiple sources that this has happened at a championships in the last couple of years but I'm effectively only party to one side of the story and will not risk identifying the event.


If you think a race official has engaged in misconduct or contravened the Race Officials Code of Conduct, you can write a complaint to the host club or the RYA.

That will be dealt with administratively. It is not subject to the RRS.

Is that good enough though?

I could be censured under rule 69 for saying to a race officer "come on, this is ridiculous" after the 8th general recall where we cant cross the line on starboard and no sign of moving the pin back a few lengths, but the race officer can say/do what they like with no effective recourse available.

I fully get and I am onboard with the volunteers speech, I have race officered open meetings myself. When I pay to enter the event I expect good service. There are - unfortunately- still ROs out there who think that we turn up so that they can run an event, and they are exactly the sort who play the cards suggested. They are in the minority but out there.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 21 at 5:02am
Is that good enough though? I could be censured under rule 69 for saying to a race officer "come on, this is ridiculous" after the 8th general recall where we cant cross the line on starboard and no sign of moving the pin back a few lengths, but the race officer can say/do what they like with no effective recourse available.


There is no power to 'censure' a competitor under rule 69.   A competitor can either be given a warning or a penalty applicable to her places in races or further participation in an event.

You seem to misundersatnd the effect of a complaint of official misconoduct. The outcome of such a complaint for a race official can include censure or reprimand, and suspension or disqualification from officiating.

Misconduct may not be the same as incompetence, but at least at World Sailing level, a complaint of incompetence is investigated an treated similarly to misconduct and can have similarly serious consequences.

When I pay to enter the event I expect good service.


Be careful what you wish for.

If you choose to treat a sailing event as a consumer service purchase transaction, instead of as as collaborative endeavour of a voluntary association to engage in a pleasurable activity, it won't come cheap. Qualified race officials put a lot of time an effort into gaining qualifications and experience to run racing. Has you club got a lazy 70k lying around to employ a full time professional?

There are - unfortunately- still ROs out there who think that we turn up so that they can run an event, and they are exactly the sort who play the cards suggested. They are in the minority but out there.


And preventing that from happening next time is exactly what a written complaint to the organiser will contribute to.

How much do you think an earful of abuse to that sort of person will acccomplish?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 21 at 7:50am
Brass . Spot on 
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