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Oatsandbeans View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oatsandbeans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 21 at 6:52pm
I agree but it appears to be quite a skittish little boat - in a breeze I suspect quite demanding!
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 21 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by L192444

Originally posted by Sussex Lad

 
The RS 200 was advertised as a lightweight boat at the time with some ridiculous weight quoted on their website. Turns out the weight quoted was for an unfitted hull and the actual hull weight was not particularly light. RS have since amended their advertising.


Good point the website still quotes 78kg for the hull weight but that must be before the fit it out and add the pole, thwart etc ... not what most of us would consider the definition of hull weight.

Says on their website that the sailing weight is 114kg so that is another 36kg of stuff on top of the hull ...

For an occasional 2 hander I'd go with a National 12 or Tasar, both far more pleasing to sail and a lot easier to pull up the beach afterwards.





Yes think the fitted out hull weight was just over 90kg

We have 3 or 4 at the club down on the south coast and they usually do very well in the club handicap races. One in particular usually cleans up with another hot on it's tail.
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Mozzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 21 at 10:17pm
It's only really the tasar, 400, merlin and b14 which are faster as 2 man hiking dinghies. All are longer, all need more weight and certainly the 400 and merlin are heavier. So, I wouldn't say its slow for its type or slow for the size of sailor.

I'm fact, average speed during a race is often higher than tasar and close to a merlin... its just you sail quite a bit further too.

Certainly there are many places an asymmetric can be frustrating (having spent the weekend short gybing down a river bank!).

It's hard to say much about handicap, I'd say it was reasonably tough, but not massively so. It does get a boost with a few nice broad reaches but I don't find it nearly as 'on-off' as the 800 is when the wind drops.
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L192444 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote L192444 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 21 at 8:14am
Originally posted by Mozzy

It's only really the tasar, 400, merlin and b14 which are faster as 2 man hiking dinghies. All are longer, all need more weight and certainly the 400 and merlin are heavier. So, I wouldn't say its slow for its type or slow for the size of sailor.

I'm fact, average speed during a race is often higher than tasar and close to a merlin... its just you sail quite a bit further too.

Certainly there are many places an asymmetric can be frustrating (having spent the weekend short gybing down a river bank!).

It's hard to say much about handicap, I'd say it was reasonably tough, but not massively so. It does get a boost with a few nice broad reaches but I don't find it nearly as 'on-off' as the 800 is when the wind drops.

Crew weights for Tasar and 200 are near identical. 

The RS 200 is popular because it hooked into the asymmetric boom of the late 90s and with the RS marketing budget it managed to squash the traditional couples classes. 

Internationally the RS200 is non-existent. The Tasar has much more international profile in AUS, USA and JPN. Shame it hasnít had the commercial backing in Europe as it would better serve couples sailing in the UK as it does overseas.  


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Mozzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 21 at 8:49am
Ideal for a 200 is 120-135 kg, over 140 is hard to be competitive. Tasar had a minimum weight of 130kg where they give extra lead. I think most of tasar sailors at the worlds were over 140 and the winners were high 140s. So I'd say the ideal weights are 10-15 kilo apart. I could be convinced that the tasar ideal weight is skewed high from aussies sailing in.predominetly higher wind and the 130kg limit.

Tasar is probably more similar to Merlins (sailed on open water champ venues).
B14 and RS400 are more like 150-160 kg based on Nick and Toby being successful in both.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 21 at 10:15am
Just some numbers from last years PY list for non trapeze two handers.

11 classes without kites did 21% of races
7 classes with pole kites did 33% of races
7 classes with asymms did 46% of races
And no pole kite class managed even half as many races as either the RS400 or RS200.
Its fairly obvious where people's enthusiasm is.
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L192444 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote L192444 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 21 at 11:38am
Originally posted by Mozzy

... the winners were high 140s.  

Dunno where you got that data from; looked like a average guy and his young daughter ...

The 3rd was RS200 champion James Peters so I'd guess they are similar weight carriers.

Either way they are only say 5% different which is close enough for most club sailors.

Anyway for most I'd say similar. Plus the Tasar has the benefit that an average couple can actually pull it up the beach without too much strain.

The hey day for couples sailing was when the Ents and 12s had huge fleets at clubs and championships.

Simple boats that novices can jump into and crew ... the introduction of spinnakers into this category of boat has driven away the casual participant ...

Clubs need boats that allow couples to sail and to be able to introduce kids and beginners. Spinnakers don't help that; they may please the experts but for accessibility to the sport they are a hinderance.


Edited by L192444 - 13 Oct 21 at 11:49am
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 21 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by L192444

Originally posted by Mozzy

... the winners were high 140s.  

Dunno where you got that data from; looked like a average guy and his young daughter ...

The 3rd was RS200 champion James Peters so I'd guess they are similar weight carriers.

Either way they are only say 5% different which is close enough for most club sailors.

Anyway for most I'd say similar. Plus the Tasar has the benefit that an average couple can actually pull it up the beach without too much strain.

The hey day for couples sailing was when the Ents and 12s had huge fleets at clubs and championships.

Simple boats that novices can jump into and crew ... the introduction of spinnakers into this category of boat has driven away the casual participant ...

Clubs need boats that allow couples to sail and to be able to introduce kids and beginners. Spinnakers don't help that; they may please the experts but for accessibility to the sport they are a hinderance.

Im guessing that's part of the reason why assymetrics are more popular than sym kites, the learning curve is somewhat shallower for assy. But agreed that they are not beginner friendly boats. If it was more acceptable to sail without the kite and request a suitably amended PN that would solve the problem to a great extent.
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L192444 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote L192444 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 21 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

  If it was more acceptable to sail without the kite and request a suitably amended PN that would solve the problem to a great extent.

Yeah, but that just highlights a lack of skill that some would find embarrassing ... affordable, easy to use and lightweight equipment is what we need for making the sport more accessible.

I look at the Tasar as a modern Enterprise ... which was highly popular once upon a time ...

The way the manufactures have developed the boats is a bit of an own goal IMHO. 
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 21 at 12:40pm
Jimís comments about PY returns could be skewed if assymetric classes by their nature get kicked into handicap fleets.  We are on an estuary which tends to favour beat and running classes, of which half the race will be against the tide, assymetrics perform poorly here, and really are only appealing to those who favour the relative simplicity of the, in our case, RS400.

I tried the RS200 when they first came out, my overall impression was that if you cannot achieve a ratio between sail area and weight that facilitates apparent wind sailing, then the assymetric spinni is a waste of time.  Though in defence of the RS200 it does seem to offer the best one design racing for mixed weight/age combos, with a thriving open meeting and nationals circuit.
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