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Post Options Post Options   Quote A2Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 21 at 7:34am
Ta!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote john80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 21 at 6:48pm
The finish boats were on station and the race was at 60 minutes. When I went past in the thirties the lady was taking numbers so nothing seemed out of place to me. My personal view is that the race committee forgot to shorten the course. Waiting between races the pressure dropped and the 2 hour time limit could well have been in jeopardy. All in all some pretty poor fleet management by the race officer in my view. If someone had noticed they could well have sailed another lap, the race officer could have concluded that they were going home and the next race start would have been missed. That individual would then have had to seek redress for the finish being missing and redress for missing the next race start. This would have made that person very popular.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 21 at 9:21pm
No S flag, no sound signals for the leaders, I don’t recall any blue flags (though I could be wrong on this point and even if displayed the lack of S flag is critical), there was anecdotal talk that some competitors were told that they had been finished but had this been the case then the outcome of the protest would surely have been very different … the writing was on the wall when the on water judge protested the whole fleet.  I think I was heading for my second best result of the week, but I think the competitors only had themselves to blame.

I think that the RO was dealt a difficult set of cards, he knew that the forecast ENE winds were going to cause problems later in the week, so was probably under pressure to get races completed at the front end of the week, which may have resulted in the incident referred, and also allowed the subsequent race gate start to stand.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 21 at 10:59pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

No S flag, no sound signals for the leaders, I don’t recall any blue flags (though I could be wrong on this point and even if displayed the lack of S flag is critical), there was anecdotal talk that some competitors were told that they had been finished but had this been the case then the outcome of the protest would surely have been very different … the writing was on the wall when the on water judge protested the whole fleet.  I think I was heading for my second best result of the week, but I think the competitors only had themselves to blame.

I think that the RO was dealt a difficult set of cards, he knew that the forecast ENE winds were going to cause problems later in the week, so was probably under pressure to get races completed at the front end of the week, which may have resulted in the incident referred, and also allowed the subsequent race gate start to stand.

So, the RO, for whatever reason not having signalled shorten course, was happy not to score boats NSC, then a judge stepped in and protested.

What a very odd jury protest policy.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 21 at 7:52am
Actually we were initially scored DSQ which was later changed to DNF, possibly following a request to reopen the hearing that was denied.

Three protests ensued one from the on water judge, protestor in his own name the protestee “the fleet”.

More bizarrely a claim for redress by the pathfinder for the subsequent race was upheld.  I believe that he argued that he was selected by being 10th in a race that he was DSQ/DNF, and was then prejudiced by having to head on out on port tack when the early starters benefited from going left, I could not work out why average points were granted to the pathfinder rather than the race being binned, though would have lost my best result of the week having started early and gone hard left!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 21 at 8:12am
You have to ask yourself what on earth made the front of the fleet, all experienced racers with national and world championship titles under their belts, all sail to the finish with no signals posted?

Just doesn't make sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 21 at 8:20am
Originally posted by davidyacht

Actually we were initially scored DSQ which was later changed to DNF, possibly following a request to reopen the hearing that was denied.
Three protests ensued one from the on water judge, protestor in his own name the protestee “the fleet”.


Were the protest decisions published?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 21 at 8:21am
Target time 60 minutes … finish line on station … dying breeze

So I guess that they anticipated the ROs decision rather than look for the S flag.

Should add that visible signals were pretty hard to discern all week because the halyards on the committee boat were so close together.

I should add that MBSC off the water were exemplary, really hospitable, trolleys delivered to you at the waters edge etc..  I think that the RO felt under pressure to get races in.  There should have been more willingness to switch to line starts, and the RO insisted on using the gate boat RIB to move the windward mark which tended to delay the starts by which time the next 50 degree shift had come in.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 21 at 8:27am
Originally posted by davidyacht

Target time 60 minutes … finish line on station … dying breeze

So I guess that they anticipated the ROs decision rather than look for the S flag.

Should add that visible signals were pretty hard to discern all week because the halyards on the committee boat were so close together.

I should add that MBSC off the water were exemplary, really hospitable, trolleys delivered to you at the waters edge etc..  I think that the RO felt under pressure to get races in.  There should have been more willingness to switch to line starts, and the RO insisted on using the gate boat RIB to move the windward mark which tended to delay the starts by which time the next 50 degree shift had come in.

Not a fan of gate starts, with modern methods setting a line is now less faff then it used to be pre GPS and i've never seen so much damage as the one event I've done with gate starts. Far more to go wrong and a disadvantaged competitor.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 21 at 8:29am
I suppose the big question is whether all the competitors would have liked the race to stand. If there were a number who wanted the race thrown out then presumably hands were tied, but otherwise it sounds like a case of forgetting the rules are there to serve the competitors.

As for the average points rather than binning the race in the subsequent race, the RC are required to make the fairest decision for everyone, so binning races should be very much a last resort. But it must be very unusual for a pathfinder to win redress for being pathfinder!

It must have been a very *interesting* event. I'm reminded of a championship many years ago where the competitors were so unhappy about a RC/PC decision they held the prize giving in the dinghy park without a club representative.
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