Laurent Giles 'Jolly Boat' Exeter |
29er GBR 074 Tynemouth |
J24 (Sail No. 4239) Dartmouth |
List classes of boat for sale |
Pointless PY Pondering |
Post Reply | Page <12345 16> |
Author | ||
iGRF
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Topic: Pointless PY Pondering Posted: 19 Nov 20 at 7:22pm |
|
Oh dear |
||
Sussex Lad
Far too distracted from work Joined: 08 Jun 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 359 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Nov 20 at 7:50pm | |
The PY system is broke for many reasons and there isn't the will to change it. |
||
Chris_H
Far too distracted from work Joined: 13 May 20 Online Status: Offline Posts: 237 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Nov 20 at 8:25pm | |
Of course. We have a declining audience and so the Cost_To_Change vs Benefit is minimal. As for the spurious bar talk about manipulation by top sailors joining clubs who dont submit results - show me the proof, show me the money. Name names. And if you do Show Me, any end result by such an incredible "Lance Armstrong" minority, is really not going to skew the PY to any real degree. It is so preposterous as not to warrant any credibility. Sorry, H2, but I just dont buy it. It's beer talk
Edited by Chris_H - 19 Nov 20 at 8:28pm |
||
Sussex Lad
Far too distracted from work Joined: 08 Jun 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 359 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Nov 20 at 8:42pm | |
Cost may prohibit any change but it has nothing to do with the will to change. I maintain that there is no (with those that matter) will to change. |
||
Chris_H
Far too distracted from work Joined: 13 May 20 Online Status: Offline Posts: 237 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Nov 20 at 9:19pm | |
I agree, but its a circular argument. Theres no will because there's no perceived significant benefit. Status quo and all that...
Edited by Chris_H - 19 Nov 20 at 9:20pm |
||
Cirrus
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Oct 15 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 590 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Nov 20 at 9:47pm | |
Or you can sort the website by
class Mike (http://www.pyonline.org.uk/map-classes.php) and see that for the
Blaze Burghfield has not returned any data on your races
Sorry - I've only been a full BSC member for 38 years and as a student member before that as long as I could get away with it... so obviously I was even planning this all before the Blaze even came into being - is that what you are implying ? (btw - of course when I was in the committee system at BSC we ALWAYS put it returns ). Looks like as soon as the current incumbents start doing it again I'll either have to switch classes or clubs then to prove you dodgy ‘fake news’ conspiracy theorists right !! ) Dream on ... Edited by Cirrus - 19 Nov 20 at 9:50pm |
||
423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Nov 20 at 9:48pm | |
Making a very simple mathematical formula based on returns from your own clubs very complicated. What do you think they are doing? They are not sitting round a cauldron cackling.
|
||
Robert
|
||
epicfail
Groupie Joined: 01 Dec 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 61 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Nov 20 at 10:00pm | |
In an ideal world there would be some form of handicap based on the ability of the boat and not the sailor, would this solve the problem? Probably not, no doubt some people would be happy others not. Are there enough important handicap events to make this an issue? The fact that I think the PY of my Europe on my lake might be a bit low isn't really an issue, after all it's likely to be down to my lack of ability
The Solo and Europe are very different but share the same PY, from where I sail this looks about right. The Europe and Lightning are not dissimilar but are some way apart. I suppose I was looking for some revelation that would explain this. I don't really care enough to change classes just to be closer to the front of the pond handicap. After all the Europe is a lovely boat to sail.
|
||
Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Nov 20 at 11:31pm | |
Europe is a lovely boat, based on a sail in an older one I nearly bought and might've done so if rigs for the heavier end of the weight range were plentiful.
But, handicaps based exclusively on the performance of the boat can only be formula based and keelboat handicapping in the '80s demonstrated that that approach just introduces a different set of inaccuracies. Given enough returns the PY system is the most accurate available but any statistical sample with only a few thousand samples is compromised. In the current PN list only the Laser and the Solo have more than 10,000 returns, any reputable statistician is going to places his head in his hands when presented with such data...
|
||
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
||
DiscoBall
Far too distracted from work Joined: 03 Jan 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 305 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 20 Nov 20 at 2:40am | |
I think the Lightning PY was closer to the Europe/Radial/Byte/Solo ballpark before? Not sure what happened to change it so much, though as classes go through cycles of popularity I guess the average skill level of the fleet may change significantly and have an effect on returns. Ultimately PY is just a bit of fun. The Europe is a great boat and sails well to its handicap in moderate conditions. In lighter (Solo) and heavier (radial) conditions going the right way and boat handling respectively count for a lot more in the final result so you can make up for any perceived PY disadvantage with practice! :) |
||
Post Reply | Page <12345 16> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |