Pointless PY Pondering

Originally posted by epicfail Yes I know its all based on race returns but are there obvious boat design issues that might account for the differences. Is it primarily down to weight and length?   The Streaker has less sail area than the Europe and Lightning but is longer. Does this partly explain it's quicker PY. It's also quicker than a Solo despite the Solo having more sail - but I guess the Solo is a bit of a lardy. Perhaps all Streaker racers really good? The Lightning is longer than the Europe has the same sail area but the hull is 9kg heavier, Is that enough to explain the slower PY than the Europe?  Or perhaps I'm a fool to ask?

The PY system is broke for many reasons and there isn't the will to change it.  

Originally posted by Chris_H Originally posted by Sussex Lad The PY system is broke for many reasons and there isn't the will to change it.   Of course. We have a declining audience and so the Cost_To_Change vs Benefit is minimal. As for the spurious bar talk about manipulation by top sailors joining clubs who dont submit results - show me the proof, show me the money. Name names. And if you do Show Me, any end result by such an incredible "Lance Armstrong" minority, is really not going to skew the PY to any real degree. It is so preposterous as not to warrant any credibility.  Sorry, H2, but I just dont buy it. It's beer talk

Cost may prohibit any change but it has nothing to do with the will to change. I maintain that there is no (with those that matter) will to change.

Or you can sort the website by class Mike (http://www.pyonline.org.uk/map-classes.php) and see that for the Blaze Burghfield has not returned any data on your races

Sorry -  I've only been a full BSC member for 38 years and as a student member before that as long as I could get away with it... so obviously I was even planning this all before the Blaze even came into being - is that what you are implying ?    (btw - of course when I was in the committee system at BSC we  ALWAYS  put it returns ).  Looks like as soon as the current incumbents start doing it again I'll either have to switch classes or clubs then to prove you dodgy ‘fake news’ conspiracy theorists right !! )  Dream on ...

Edited by Cirrus - 19 Nov 20 at 9:50pm

In an ideal world there would be some form of handicap based on the ability of the boat and not the sailor, would this solve the problem? Probably not, no doubt some people would be happy others not. Are there enough important handicap events to make this an issue? The fact that I think the PY of my Europe on my lake might be a bit low isn't really an issue, after all it's likely to be down to my lack of ability 

Originally posted by epicfail In an ideal world there would be some form of handicap based on the ability of the boat and not the sailor, would this solve the problem? Probably not, no doubt some people would be happy others not. Are there enough important handicap events to make this an issue? The fact that I think the PY of my Europe on my lake might be a bit low isn't really an issue, after all it's likely to be down to my lack of ability  The Solo and Europe are very different but share the same PY, from where I sail this looks about right. The Europe and Lightning are not dissimilar but are some way apart. I suppose I was looking for some revelation that would explain this. I don't really care enough to change classes just to be closer to the front of the pond handicap. After all the Europe is a lovely boat to sail.

I think the Lightning PY was closer to the Europe/Radial/Byte/Solo ballpark before? Not sure what happened to change it so much, though as classes go through cycles of popularity I guess the average skill level of the fleet may change significantly and have an effect on returns.

Ultimately PY is just a bit of fun. The Europe is a great boat and sails well to its handicap in moderate conditions. In lighter (Solo) and heavier (radial) conditions going the right way and boat handling respectively count for a lot more in the final result so you can make up for any perceived PY disadvantage with practice! :)