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Adjustable raking systems

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Oatsandbeans View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oatsandbeans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 20 at 8:05pm
A commonly held misconception is that the mast foot position is an effective method of adjusting the mast rake and C of E position. It is not but it is really good at changing the mast bend. It works with the deck level or lowers to stiffen or bend the mast.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 20 at 10:12pm
Griff, do you want all this faff? Every time you change tack, you not only have to swap sides, pull on the mainsheet, slacken or tighten the Kicker, you then want to add adjustable on the fly, lowers, forestay, rake etc.
Robert
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 20 at 10:19pm
Well to further explain how I'm coming to the conclusion that moving the mast foot is preferable to just plane raking the rig by letting go the forestay and pulling it bacik up again which is pretty much all that's open to me on say the Solution and that Supersofa, and to a limited extent it helps by depowering upwind if it gets a bit blowy and dead downwind with the shrouds slack getting the boom out.

But think about it, if the mast base could be shifted back without moving the shroud anchor ponits then that moves the boom pivot back and accomplishes the same thing, without necessarily having the depower going on upwind unless you moved it a long way forward.

Also, and it is a bit of an issue with this Fireblade boat which rides a bit nose up, I suspect because it's actually a cut down Icon (with a bit of a noisy stern), so moving the mast base forward would help keep the nose down and engaged waterline length and all a la Raceboard. It's tricky really, I can't help thinking like this because it's what works and has served well over the stand up years. I guess what I'm really looking for is good reasons not to, other than just the pfaff it's going to cause.

I need to have more goes and get some wiring time in before really going hard at it, but I just wanted to know what had been tried down the years and thanks for everything y'all have come up with so far.

Edited by iGRF - 17 Nov 20 at 10:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 20 at 10:24pm
Is there any indication how far forward Mike moved the mastfoot in the conversion from Icon to Fireblade? That said moving crew weight is probably a more effective way of correcting trim than moving the rig, on a RB we had to move the rig simply to allow the sailor to move forward.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 20 at 10:44pm
Upwind you should be able to engage about 100mm of the bow in the water . (plenty imo)  as speed increases I would adjust the crew position ending up with the bow knuckle just clearing the water.  Little impression of speed even then as it barely produces any real wake ... usually a good sign !

Best to get a few hours simple sailing 'as is'  before any really radical changes though !  Short term as mentioned already in ref to masts it  might be very sensible to use  a ligher (carbon) stick if onc can be sourced at a sensible price - particularly if (like GRF) you are lighter yourself.   a flexi carbo stick might be worth the early effort whatever comes next then maybe consider more complex controls / adjustments if still looking for additonal controls - I'm not sure they will be needed if the stick issue is addressed.   BTW the mast  position was moved forward by about 250-300mm as this question was asked and the boat is approx 280mm shorter than Icon (and is quite different in terms of hull freeboard, beam etc) .. but inherits / shares a similarly low rocker shape. 


Edited by Cirrus - 17 Nov 20 at 10:44pm
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patj View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote patj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 20 at 9:47am
The modern Applecore has adjustustable shrouds and jib tension but gets away without lowers by having a hog stepped mast with an adjustable ram at deck level. Add leading back the forestay to pull the mast forward again and there can be an awful lot to do at those marks even for two crew and ensuring you get the same settings twice is probably the hardest bit.  Smile

We also have a Zoom - think Laser clone with 2 position stayed deck stepped mast and trapeze - and the current mast is somewhat tree trunk and not original - possibly off an Enterprise. Suggestions welcome for a more suitable mast - can't afford carbon! 


Edited by patj - 18 Nov 20 at 9:50am
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 20 at 9:49am
Originally posted by patj

The modern Applecore has adjustustable shrouds and jib tension but gets away without lowers by having a hog stepped mast with an adjustable ram at deck level. Add leading back the forestay to pull the mast forward again and there can be an awful lot to do at those marks even for two crew and ensuring you get the same settings twice is probably the hardest bit.  Smile


And all for a minuscule speed gain in a one design with loose rules concerning rigging.
If starting from scratch, surely there are better ways of getting a bigger increase in speed?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 20 at 12:40pm
It was long a bugbear of mine that certain classes would spend enormous amounts of money on going 1% faster to the exclusion of what might make a boat go 10% faster. These days I'm not so convinced that going 10% faster is necessarily a good thing, at least in terms of popularity, but I can still think of classes where some more vigorous enforcement of the original rules and a determination to avoid what one might call creeping complexity would have kept the sport a lot more affordable.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 20 at 1:11pm
Time in the same boat and coaching, would give you a significant advantage, certainly more than all the gizmos, excepting making it foil.
Robert
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Moo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 20 at 1:14pm
And if Graeme is hoping to build an active class off the back of this project, I can't help thinking all this proposed complexity is likely to put a lot of punters off.
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