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Adjustable raking systems |
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Oatsandbeans
Far too distracted from work Joined: 19 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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Topic: Adjustable raking systems Posted: 17 Nov 20 at 8:05pm |
A commonly held misconception is that the mast foot position is an effective method of adjusting the mast rake and C of E position. It is not but it is really good at changing the mast bend. It works with the deck level or lowers to stiffen or bend the mast.
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423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 Nov 20 at 10:12pm |
Griff, do you want all this faff? Every time you change tack, you not only have to swap sides, pull on the mainsheet, slacken or tighten the Kicker, you then want to add adjustable on the fly, lowers, forestay, rake etc.
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Robert
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iGRF
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 Nov 20 at 10:19pm |
Well to further explain how I'm coming to the conclusion that moving the mast foot is preferable to just plane raking the rig by letting go the forestay and pulling it bacik up again which is pretty much all that's open to me on say the Solution and that Supersofa, and to a limited extent it helps by depowering upwind if it gets a bit blowy and dead downwind with the shrouds slack getting the boom out.
But think about it, if the mast base could be shifted back without moving the shroud anchor ponits then that moves the boom pivot back and accomplishes the same thing, without necessarily having the depower going on upwind unless you moved it a long way forward. Also, and it is a bit of an issue with this Fireblade boat which rides a bit nose up, I suspect because it's actually a cut down Icon (with a bit of a noisy stern), so moving the mast base forward would help keep the nose down and engaged waterline length and all a la Raceboard. It's tricky really, I can't help thinking like this because it's what works and has served well over the stand up years. I guess what I'm really looking for is good reasons not to, other than just the pfaff it's going to cause. I need to have more goes and get some wiring time in before really going hard at it, but I just wanted to know what had been tried down the years and thanks for everything y'all have come up with so far. Edited by iGRF - 17 Nov 20 at 10:21pm |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 Nov 20 at 10:24pm |
Is there any indication how far forward Mike moved the mastfoot in the conversion from Icon to Fireblade? That said moving crew weight is probably a more effective way of correcting trim than moving the rig, on a RB we had to move the rig simply to allow the sailor to move forward.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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Cirrus
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Oct 15 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 590 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 17 Nov 20 at 10:44pm |
Upwind you should be able to engage about 100mm of the bow in the water . (plenty imo) as speed increases I would adjust the crew position ending up with the bow knuckle just clearing the water. Little impression of speed even then as it barely produces any real wake ... usually a good sign ! Best to get a few hours simple sailing 'as is' before any really radical changes though ! Short term as mentioned already in ref to masts it might be very sensible to use a ligher (carbon) stick if onc can be sourced at a sensible price - particularly if (like GRF) you are lighter yourself. a flexi carbo stick might be worth the early effort whatever comes next then maybe consider more complex controls / adjustments if still looking for additonal controls - I'm not sure they will be needed if the stick issue is addressed. BTW the mast position was moved forward by about 250-300mm as this question was asked and the boat is approx 280mm shorter than Icon (and is quite different in terms of hull freeboard, beam etc) .. but inherits / shares a similarly low rocker shape.
Edited by Cirrus - 17 Nov 20 at 10:44pm |
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patj
Really should get out more Joined: 16 Jul 04 Location: Wiltshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 640 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 Nov 20 at 9:47am |
The modern Applecore has adjustustable shrouds and jib tension but gets away without lowers by having a hog stepped mast with an adjustable ram at deck level. Add leading back the forestay to pull the mast forward again and there can be an awful lot to do at those marks even for two crew and ensuring you get the same settings twice is probably the hardest bit.
We also have a Zoom - think Laser clone with 2 position stayed deck stepped mast and trapeze - and the current mast is somewhat tree trunk and not original - possibly off an Enterprise. Suggestions welcome for a more suitable mast - can't afford carbon! Edited by patj - 18 Nov 20 at 9:50am |
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 Nov 20 at 9:49am |
And all for a minuscule speed gain in a one design with loose rules concerning rigging. If starting from scratch, surely there are better ways of getting a bigger increase in speed? |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 Nov 20 at 12:40pm |
It was long a bugbear of mine that certain classes would spend enormous amounts of money on going 1% faster to the exclusion of what might make a boat go 10% faster. These days I'm not so convinced that going 10% faster is necessarily a good thing, at least in terms of popularity, but I can still think of classes where some more vigorous enforcement of the original rules and a determination to avoid what one might call creeping complexity would have kept the sport a lot more affordable.
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423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 Nov 20 at 1:11pm |
Time in the same boat and coaching, would give you a significant advantage, certainly more than all the gizmos, excepting making it foil.
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Robert
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The Moo
Really should get out more Joined: 01 Jun 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 807 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 18 Nov 20 at 1:14pm |
And if Graeme is hoping to build an active class off the back of this project, I can't help thinking all this proposed complexity is likely to put a lot of punters off.
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