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Hitting a Mark... |
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
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Topic: Hitting a Mark... Posted: 28 Oct 20 at 1:29pm |
Not keen on the 'invisible' or 'out of play' idea. If that were the case, rules 22.2 and 24.2 would have no work to do.
There's nothing in the rules to say that a boat taking a penalty turn cannot become entitled to mark-room: it's just that if she does, she will not be exonerated for not keeping clear as required by rule 22.2, because rule 21 (Exoneration) does not include rule 22.2. And any mark-room that she becomes entitled to is not limited to boats more than 3 boat lengths away. Why should it be?
Edited by Brass - 28 Oct 20 at 1:30pm |
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Andymac
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Oct 20 at 6:20pm |
Would it not be the case that whilst taking the penalty turn, you should not be in a position to manouvre into an instantaneous 'advantagous' situation over other boats in close proximity. That appears to go against the caveat in case 108 'well clear of other boats, and when no question of advantage arises'.
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Oct 20 at 10:04pm |
Andy, 'in a position to manoeuvre into an instantaneous 'advantageous' situation': you are shovelling words into the rules that aren't there. Case 108 is primarily about ways a boat may manoeuvre in taking a penalty. It does nothing to add to or interpret the words of rule 44.1(b) Looking at the diagram above, my view is that:
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Andymac
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Oct 20 at 6:35am |
Ah, I misinterpreted case 108, did not realize that 'advantage' was directly referring to rule 44.1(b).
I still have a problem with the notion that a boat can complete a penalty turn inside the zone and instantly gain entitlement to mark room. With no buffer, it gives them the right to barge in (not being subject to rule 15). Or am I overthinking this? |
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423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Oct 20 at 7:05am |
Remove a large chunk of rules and simply allow the marks to be touched, as long as they have been passed on the correct side.
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Robert
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Oct 20 at 8:29am |
Andy,
As any law student will tell you, never rely on a headnote. I'm not trying to kid you that this outcome was carefully considered and approved by the rule-makers: I'd suggest that it is an unlikely and unusual situation that was never in contemplation. Note that the 'unbuffered' flip-flop occurs @8 when Y passes head to wind (completes her penalty, ceases to be required to keep clear by rule 22.2, and simultaneously becomes required to keep clear by rule 13, so it's only going to affect a port tacker way deep of the layline coming in red hot. Edited by Brass - 29 Oct 20 at 9:22am |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Oct 20 at 10:36am |
Windsurfers have done this for years (not that most of them paid any notice beforehand mind you ) and it is a licence to barge in at speed.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Oct 20 at 11:19am |
Would be Exciting to see large cats doing that.
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Robert
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Andymac
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Oct 20 at 11:33am |
Brass, In the scenario you have illustrated (downwind finish), indeed there is little chance of a conflict arising.
Take a different scenario when the finish is on a fetch/reach with a steady stream of boats... The penalty boat first tacks then gybes... Straight into the stream of boats, with a claim to mark room... On a normal inside overlap at a mark, the zone provides the buffer. How would you propose a solution to the situation then? Mine would be something like; Addendum case 108 or explanatory note (or whatever it takes) 'A boat taking a penalty turn within a mark zone forfeits any entitlement to mark room and cannot re-establish entitlement on completion of the penalty over other boats already in the zone'. How would you see that? |
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Oct 20 at 11:43am |
Thanks for the reaching example. I agree that it's much more problematical.
I think the problem will be solved in the 2021 rules, where a new last sentence is added to rule 18.1 Rule 18 no longer applies between boats when mark-room has been given. Edited by Brass - 29 Oct 20 at 1:11pm |
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