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Room for an obstruction |
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Nacnud_smada
Groupie Joined: 06 Jun 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 50 |
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Topic: Room for an obstruction Posted: 24 Sep 20 at 12:50pm |
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just to be clear..
Two boats a solo and laser sailing up to a windward mark.
There is an obstruction in the way in this case a pontoon. Solo calls for room to tack.. Here's no reply so tacks and then there is a collision (no damage or injury) on the back corner of the laser who is tacking. Laser is saying. Solo did not give room and opertunity - solo. Said I called waited no reply and needed to tack I said that there has to be some atcipation as both boats know there pontoon is there. |
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Sep 20 at 1:33pm | |||
As so often happens as the details come out it gets messier. Never mind, we can sort it out.
Did the Laser tack as soon as possible after the hail? If so she has complied with her rule 20.2(c) obligation, without needing to say a word. Leaving aside the 'room and opportunity' gibberish is Laser saying "I tacked as soon as I reasonably could, but Solo slammed into her tack without giving me enough time to respond"? |
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Nacnud_smada
Groupie Joined: 06 Jun 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 50 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Sep 20 at 1:42pm | |||
Yes it very interesting, thank you for your time with it.
Laser did say they tacked asap after hail... Solo did not slam in a tack.. solo waited for response. and heard not so tack.. no would where the impact on the boat now become relevant? as this i do not know..
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Sep 20 at 1:52pm | |||
So S did not tack and did not hail 'you tack'. S broke rule 20.2(c).
Absloutely not. See Case 101
Within hail?
If she hears the hail she must respond (rule 20.2(b)). IF she thinks she is far enough away that she need do nothing, her response is to hail 'you tack' immediately. Edited by Brass - 24 Sep 20 at 1:53pm |
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Sep 20 at 2:05pm | |||
If Laser tacked as soon as possible after the hail, she has complied with her obligation under rule 20.2(c), and that's the end of rule 20, and now we're back to pure right of way. So contact occurred after both boats had passed head to wind from starboard onto port. If neither had reached her close hauled course, then Solo will be on Laser's port side and is required to keep clear (rule 13 last sentence). If Solo has reached her close hauled course and Laser has not, then Laser is required to keep clear (rule 13 first sentence). If Solo has not reached her close hauled course and Laser has, then Solo is required to keep clear (rule 13 first sentence). If both have reached close hauled, then I'm guessing contact was Solo's bow to Lasers port transom corner, in which case Solo was overlapped to windward on same tack as Laser, and required to keep clear. Edited by Brass - 24 Sep 20 at 2:06pm |
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Nacnud_smada
Groupie Joined: 06 Jun 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 50 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Sep 20 at 2:08pm | |||
Boom. thank you. all very simple really.. hahah thank you
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davidyacht
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Sep 20 at 2:42pm | |||
Thanks Brass for pointing to 101, I tried to find an appeal case but couldn't find an appropriate one
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Happily living in the past
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Sep 20 at 10:01pm | |||
Duncan's original query revolved around Solo giving 'time to respond' (rule 20.2(a), and Laser tacking 'as soon as possible' (rule 20.2(c)).
Case 54 puts it very neatly When the boats are clearly approaching an obstruction at which A will need room to tack, B must be alert to the situation and anticipate a hail from A. Anticipation is necessary because rule 20.2(c) requires B to respond either by immediately replying ‘You tack’ or by tacking as soon as possible. If B does not immediately hail ‘You tack’, A must give B the time required for a competent, but not expert, crew to prepare for and execute her tack in a seamanlike manner as soon as possible in the prevailing conditions. |
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Nacnud_smada
Groupie Joined: 06 Jun 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 50 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 20 at 7:25am | |||
Thank you Brass, this is just what i needed.
one question which will come back when we have another chat about this, is... what if laser says he did tack straight away ( but did not hail tacking, we know that) and there was impact... would the laser be in the wrong for not giving enough room? breaking rule 20?
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Nacnud_smada
Groupie Joined: 06 Jun 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 50 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Sep 20 at 7:34am | |||
I think this just answered my above question dont you
Question 3 What should A do if B does not respond to her hail? Answer 3 Although the rule only requires one hail, if time permits it is prudent for A to repeat her hail. The lack of a response from B does not mean that A must hold her course. If needed, A should avoid the obstruction in the safest manner, which may include luffing up to head to wind or gybing. A can then protest if B has not responded as required by rule Rule: 20.2" data-url="/rules/678?xformat=fleet" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(51, 122, 183);">20.2( |
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