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ian.r.mcdonald
Far too distracted from work Joined: 24 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 440 |
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Topic: Ovington Laser Posted: 09 Oct 20 at 12:01pm |
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Surely 95% of the LP boats will go to schools and holiday venues so it won't be a problem for 2-3 years when they get replaced?
And by then there will be a different boat in the Olympic slot and many of the fast guys will be swapping classes anyway. And I didn't mention the A word! |
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tink
Really should get out more Joined: 23 Jan 16 Location: North Hants Online Status: Offline Posts: 788 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Oct 20 at 1:02pm | |||
But if World Sailing wants a more inclusive Olympics could the alternatively select the LP Laser ( this isn’t supposed to be a sensible comment)
Edited by tink - 09 Oct 20 at 4:13pm |
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Tink
https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
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423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Oct 20 at 1:43pm | |||
www.thelaserclass.com
they are looking for another builder, presumably due to FRAND, ambitions to take Olympic crown from ILCA.
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Robert
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Chris_H
Far too distracted from work Joined: 13 May 20 Online Status: Offline Posts: 237 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Oct 20 at 3:15pm | |||
I note on TheLaserClass site the phrase "However, this does not mean any sacrifice of quality"
I thought that one of the reasons for the breakdown in relations between ILCA and LPE was exactly down to variable quality issues (mast pot variation etc) at LPE and their refusal to let ILCA inspect/verify/approve the build process? Have they improved the build quality since?
Edited by Chris_H - 09 Oct 20 at 3:16pm |
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 09 Oct 20 at 3:23pm | |||
Maybe "no further sacrifice of quality"?
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Online Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 10 Oct 20 at 1:16pm | |||
I haven't seen any allegations of poor quality build from ILCA sources. They have stated in public that it was simply that Laser Performance Llc (LPE are effectively history) had repeatedly refused to honour their contractual obligation to allow inspections. It's hard to know what the cause of the deteriorating relationship with ILCA was. It was, after all, not so very long ago that ILCA changed the class rules to enable LPE (as the builder then was) to continue building plaqued Lasers after LPE stopped honouring their contracts with the design owner. I think there's been something of a changing of the guard within ILCA though. |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Online Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 10 Oct 20 at 1:45pm | |||
I moved some of my posts from the RRS 78 topic as they seem to sit better here...
TLC appear to be supported financially or at least given administrative support by LP Llc or a related company. I think someone spotted their domain registration matched a LP one. Heini Wellman has not to my knowledge held a position within World Sailing, but he is the most recent past president of ILCA. He's certainly worked long and hard for the Laser class in the past as well as winning a masters Worlds. He's one of a number of EurILCA officers who were very unhappy about ditching Laser Performance. It is, I imagine, almost inevitable that senior class officers would have a good relationship with their local builders, but the claim is that LP had not served the americas well, so they were left only having friends in Europe. The UKLA seems to have steered clear of the politics and concentrated on doing the day to day work. One should note, with TLC membership, that it's free, and there were some interesting to Laser sailors videos posted which required people to sign up.
I can start a Laser class too, but I wouldn't say that makes it legitimate. As (then) recent past president of the UK Cherub class maybe I should have started a new CA when the majority of the committee and the class membership decided to make some rule changes I didn't like. TLCs builder isn't allowed to sell boats with the Laser sail logo or branding in a significant chunk of the world either. All parties have sure created chaos between them. Edited by JimC - 10 Oct 20 at 1:47pm |
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 10 Oct 20 at 2:07pm | |||
You could certainly start a legitimate class that included Laser dinghies, but you probably couldn’t call it a Laser class. You could, for example, start a class that incorporated any 14ft single single dinghy. If enough Lasers, Solos and Aeros joined you may even have a success! I’m not a LP apologist. I don’t believe rival classes is good for the sport. But TLC shouldn’t be dismissed as illegitimate, fraudulent or fake. They have every moral and legal right to exist, and branding rights covering territories populated by 99% of the global population. There are no good guys in this mess, and they have all created chaos for sure!
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423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 10 Oct 20 at 2:41pm | |||
TLC have applied to World Sailing for recognition.
I have affinity with their view, stick with the original 'Laser', people who aren't happy with original can drop out of the class and design a boat they think 'Laser' should be, go to a more modern boat, 'Aero' for instance. |
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Robert
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Online Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 10 Oct 20 at 3:18pm | |||
Of course I could. So could you. I'd have to be careful not to infringe on the Laser Trademark, but that's not very hard if you aren't trading. The rights that come with a Trademark are powerful, but very limited, as Banksy recently found out when he tried to abuse the trademark system. I could apply to World Sailing for recognition too, nothing stops me doing that either. Getting World Sailing to actually recognise my association might be harder, because when LP tried the fake Class Association game with the Sunfish WS made it quite clear they weren't going to recognise two associations for the same class. Edited by JimC - 10 Oct 20 at 3:27pm |
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