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Topic: Ovington Laser Posted: 03 Oct 20 at 1:47pm |
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A new LP boat is a class legal boat, but for the TLC class rather than the ILCA class. I wonder how many clubs have rules so carefully worded that they allow one and prohibit the other in what might generically be called the “Laser fleet”. I know mine doesn’t.
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Grumpycat
Far too distracted from work Joined: 29 Sep 20 Online Status: Offline Posts: 497 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Oct 20 at 2:18pm | |
True but TLC is a new class , with no paying members , no constitution and has not run an event anywhere. Throw in a builder selling boats at cost and the ongoing court case in the USA ( Jim C is the expert on this ) I know which one I would bet on , long term.
But on the other hand I am sure we will be seeing the new LPE boats around boats parks for years to come . As I said it’s all very sad and I am glad I no longer have a connection with the class so don’t have a dog in this fight .
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Oct 20 at 2:26pm | |
Totally agree, just pointing out that most club fleets don’t have written rules linking them to ILCA so it would be dodgy ground banning TLC boats joining in.
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iGRF
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Oct 20 at 3:25pm | |
I wonder if someone would be good enough to supply a glossary to us ill informed regarding all facts Laser and the various acronyms and initals.
ILCA TLC LP LPE FRAND ??? Probably to much to ask how it got to be the mess that it's now in, I gave up following after the Torch affair. |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Oct 20 at 5:04pm | |
ILCA 1. International Laser Class Association. Certificates boats built by long term Australian and Japanese builders plus new builders entering the market eg Devoti, Ovington. 2. New class name for boats certificated by the ILCA. TLC The Laser Class Organisation set up, apparently with money from Laser Performance LLC, by some disaffected officers from ILCA and other national laser class associations. Talks big about becoming a new international class, but that won't happen unless ILCA actually collapses since World Sailing won't support two CAs. Certificates new Laser Performance LLC Lasers. LP Probably Laser Performance LLC. US registered company that builds dinghies using the Laser trademark in Europe. Set up fairly recently. LPE Laser Performance Europe. Dormant company that used to build Lasers. No capital, no employees. Lost long running court case and owes millions in fines. FRAND Principle resulting from European competition legislation that has the effect of requiring Olympic class dinghies to be able to be sold by new vendors under fair and reasonable terms from the intellectual property owners. Edited by JimC - 03 Oct 20 at 5:17pm |
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mongrel
Far too distracted from work Joined: 27 Aug 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 304 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Oct 20 at 5:40pm | |
How many boats racing at typical club racing level have a valid measurement certificate, with the owner a being member of the class association? (Not many at our club)
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iGRF
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Oct 20 at 7:29pm | |
Thanks Jim, so TLC, is that a rogue organisation set up by the previous incumbents of Laser Production? In reality how are anybody really going to know which is which, especially considering the usual dinghy owners propensity for least cost routing to hardware acquisition. |
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423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Oct 20 at 7:43pm | |
Provided you are racing in handicap races, either boat can race, neither are trying to pretend they are anything else, boats without a PY or class association are allowed to sail,can't see Any club preventing a 'Laser' or a'ILCA' from racing along side each other, just put them down has 'Bruce Kirby' designed single hander.
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Robert
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Oct 20 at 7:50pm | |
Its awfully hard to separate fact, fiction and propaganda, but my impression is that there was a faction in ILCA and the Italian Laser Association that strongly disagreed with dumping Laser Performance LLC, and its that faction that has set up this organisation. Those folks are presumably the ones who had the closest ties with the Laser Performance companies, and LP were doubtless happy to assist them. There's a lot of complicated history. One is that there have, I understand, recently been big disagreements within the Italian Laser CA which involved the long standing CA being unrecognised by the Italian National authority and being replaced by a new Association that was set up in competition. Another is that Laser Performance fairly recently had a big row with the International Sunfish Class Association (LP build the Sunfish) and set up an alternate Sunfish Assoc on the lines of TLC, but that was abandoned when they made up relations with the real Sunfish CA. |
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 03 Oct 20 at 7:57pm | |
Are the same people making sails for the Laser and the ILCA? Just one with buttons and the other without? And several ILCA builders? I really can't see any club barring one with its head up its arse turning someone away because they have the "wrong" Laser.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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