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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 20 at 4:26pm
They still come back to bright red, when they have been heat treated, not sure if they fade by the same rate.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 20 at 7:59pm
The yellow ones that faded to grey were the worst for UV. Visage even wrote a song about it.
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 20 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by polc1410

Absolutely happens all the time. "Line clear" calls usually made on private channel (not hard to find an listen in if you are keen!) Or mobile phone.

I gather if you get in a national squad some private schools give substantial discount on your fees... Which means there is £££ at play. All rather sad.


Or rather wonderful that there are schools prepared to give scholarships to sailing athletes!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 20 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by A2Z

I hear that argument all the time and I find it bonkers.

And to my mind it's also highly morally dubious.

"I selected a boat the same as everyone else in the hopes that I could get away with 'accidentally' cheating at the start"


"A boat and her owner shall compete in compliance with recognized principles of sportsmanship and fair play"


If I'm over the line I deserve to get called by the RC. I'm not going to do anything to make their task more difficult.


Sorry to single your post out Jim, but itís the easiest to illustrate that wanting to be anonymous is not about cheating.

Not all ROs will General Recall every start where they couldnít see all the numbers. So not standing out in a yellow boat is about not being the boat that is remembered, among many that are not.

Back in the day I had a Fuscia Laser. There were two boats of that colour. We both picked up a black flag....but I got lobbed when he was over, and vice versa.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 20 at 9:29pm
Originally posted by sargesail

Sorry to single your post out Jim, but itís the easiest to illustrate that wanting to be anonymous is not about cheating.


We shall have to agree to disagree. Although I didn't say cheating, I said morally dubious.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 20 at 6:08am
Seems unfair to penalise a boat on its colour and not being able to see the number, talking about a couple of boats of the same colour not one.
Robert
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 20 at 7:58am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by sargesail

Sorry to single your post out Jim, but itís the easiest to illustrate that wanting to be anonymous is not about cheating.


We shall have to agree to disagree. Although I didn't say cheating, I said morally dubious.


You quoted cheating!

Personally I can not see that it is morally dubious to minimise the chance of being singled out from a group of miscreants by not choosing to have a different hull colour.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote salmon80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 20 at 1:58am
I have always had boats which blend in on the startline to avoid being called out as over the line


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 20 at 9:31am
I think that some of the responses here demonstrate that a win at all costs attitude is alive and well at all levels of the dinghy sailing community. So much for sportsmanship  LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Quote polc1410 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 20 at 9:59am
No. I don't think that's what's going on. It's not people wanting an invisibility cloak so they can cheat.

It's that people, rightly or wrongly, think a more noticeable boat may be singled out.

20 boats on a start line. 5 are OCS. If all are identical and the PRO can't identify them he either ignores it or gen recalls. A gen recall is not unfair / unsportsmanlike. (If he ignores it, that's unfair on the 15, but isn't the 5 sailors fault)

If there is a blue a yellow and a pink with a funny sail he can identify those. If the other two are reds and ahead of them he presumably will gen recall. On a black flag the yellow, blue etc may get punished. They may not even have been over on "go" but get punished. The two reds might get away with it. **That** is unfair.

If the two reds were behind them, i.e. barely over the line, wouldn't be the first time a PRO has decided to ignore them. Still unfair. And only possible because the three "different" boats were identifiable.

There is no circumstance on the start line where being identifiable is helpful.

Being yellow may be helpful or unhelpful in a protest. If you say "123456" hit a mark and didn't do turns. If you think 123456 is red but is yellow, your case is dismissed. It may be more likely that a witness will remember seeing the yellow boat do his turns. If there are only two yellow boats and the other guy says he never did turns, your witness is sound. But, there may be more chance of being protested because when they get ashore someone can work out which boat infringed because it was yellow...

Once the top end guys decide to (a) buy red to blend in (b) buy red if it's cheaper (c) invest that money in performance - red gets a reputation for speed. Coloured boats become older, more knackered, sailed by less able sailors... Perpetuating the story.

It's not people trying to cheat, it's people trying to be treated equally...

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