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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 20 at 11:22am
Does the Topper have a National squad under the new RYA system?

Anyway, the answer to Topper hull colours appears to be manufacturing costs, and the sails sheer boringness of how people want sails to look these days.
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polc1410 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote polc1410 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 20 at 7:56am
Absolutely happens all the time. "Line clear" calls usually made on private channel (not hard to find an listen in if you are keen!) Or mobile phone.

I gather if you get in a national squad some private schools give substantial discount on your fees... Which means there is £££ at play. All rather sad.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote andy h Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 20 at 7:41am
I always liked the N12s because in that fleet if you had a plain pale grey hull you'd stick out like a sore thumb.  "Which boat was over, RO?"  "Oh, it was that boring grey one sandwiched between the lime green one and that pink one with the purple spots".  BTW: that whole thing about parents listening on the VHF at Topper opens does happen.  I was amazed when I witnessed it first hand.
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polc1410 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote polc1410 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 20 at 6:50am
Parents and their lawyers...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote polc1410 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 20 at 6:49am
I completely agree with all your points.

If I'm OCS I deserve to be called out for it. Mind you, I will be annoyed if someone else is and doesn't get called out.

H2's observation about yellow being slower is interesting! We know that's almost certainly not the case. But it doesn't take much to get the message out that yellow are slower, or blue or whatever.

And now probably anything other than red is slower... Because it's not new...

Same for sails.

People start to think one specific version is quicker, more new boats in that version bought. New boats will be quick...

I doubt that many new Toppers are being bought by club sailors...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 20 at 9:41pm
What is the point of winning if you know you cheated (either deliberate or inadvertently)? I do get the idea that if you graze a mark and nobody sees you you might not do your penalty turn simply 'cos nobody else bothers but I've always don the turns if I know I'm in the wrong and still do.

If it's not clear cut then go with your conscience and, if the post race discussion says you were in the wrong, then retire.
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 20 at 9:17pm
I think we're seeing varying interpretations of sport.
Jim's and anything within the rules or you get away with.
I believe amateur sport is more healthy if it falls under that of Jim and professional sport isn't really sport at all, actually a money making front. 
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 20 at 10:52am
Originally posted by A2Z

I hear that argument all the time and I find it bonkers.

And to my mind it's also highly morally dubious.

"I selected a boat the same as everyone else in the hopes that I could get away with 'accidentally' cheating at the start"


"A boat and her owner shall compete in compliance with recognized principles of sportsmanship and fair play"


If I'm over the line I deserve to get called by the RC. I'm not going to do anything to make their task more difficult.


Edited by JimC - 15 Aug 20 at 10:54am
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A2Z View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote A2Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 20 at 8:34am
Originally posted by polc1410

You've never been to a Topper Nationals Protest Hearing then!  Some of these guys will be future Olympic hopefuls. They are being trained at age ~12 to compete like olympians.
No, but I have sat on a Topper Open Meeting protest committee where a protest was heard after a parent listening in (via radio) to race office comms decided to protest based on what they overheard...
Ah. You are considering sailing a hobby rather than a sport.
The sport of sailing is a hobby for the vast, vast majority (anyone not trying to make a living from it).  I was a Topper squaddie in the 90ís, there were dark blue, light blue, raspberry, red, grey and purple boats at the front of the fleet. Yellow ones always seemed slow...

 And even more sail colour combos - I always liked the blue, gold & red myself, or the pink, yellow & grey.


But lets be realistic.  Its those top 20 who are buying a brand new race topper.  Those then sell to the rest of the fleet over time.  So those 20 set the spec.


That might be the business model for a Finn or a 49er, but wasnít, shouldnít be and hopefully still isnít the case for the Topper.  If only top end racers buy new Toppers the class is in trouble - there are many more potential buyers at the bottom of the pyramid or with no intention of racing at all.  In this I agree with GRF - it is shortsighted to think that elite money is somehow more valuable. 

 And if you have an older raspberry or pale blue hull the red/white/blue sail clashes horribly!  Iíd happily pay £50 more to avoid that ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote A2Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 20 at 8:10am
Originally posted by tink

Toppers have a 3 digit champ number on the sail so no one is hiding. A considerable number of kids get a lot of fun by sailing competitively
At the clew, so unlikely to be seen on a crowded line...
Of course kids enjoy competing, some may also enjoy the chance to personalise the boat - pride of ownership etc.
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