New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: 18.3 and not fetching the mark
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

18.3 and not fetching the mark

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
jcooper View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 16 Dec 15
Location: Hampshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14
Post Options Post Options   Quote jcooper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 18.3 and not fetching the mark
    Posted: 29 Jul 20 at 7:06am
One of the conditions for rule 18.3 to apply is that the boat which tacked must be "then fetching the mark".  

This seems to imply that if I misjudge my tack slightly and can't fetch the mark, I can cause the other boat to sail above close-hauled without incurring a penalty.  

Is this correct and how does this part of the rule work out in practice? 
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6358
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 20 at 10:28am
Don't forget the definition:
"Fetching
A boat is fetching a mark when she is in a position to pass to
windward of it and leave it on the required side without changing tack."

So if you manage to get round the mark without changing tack you were by definition fetching it and 18.3 applied.
Back to Top
GML View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 24 Jul 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 86
Post Options Post Options   Quote GML Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 20 at 11:31am
In theory, yes (at least that is my view). 

In practice, if you tack onto stbd inside the zone and another boat on stbd tack has to sail above close-hauled in order to avoid you, then, unless you are so far below the layline that it is clear you couldn't possibly have fetched the mark, you are going to have a hard time convincing a protest committee that you didn't break rule 18.3. In other words, "slightly" misjudging your tack probably isn't going to be enough to get you out of a penalty for breaching rule 18.3.


Edited by GML - 29 Jul 20 at 11:32am
Back to Top
KazRob View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 22 Oct 16
Location: Scotland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 210
Post Options Post Options   Quote KazRob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 20 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by GML

In other words, "slightly" misjudging your tack probably isn't going to be enough to get you out of a penalty for breaching rule 18.3.

Isn't that really the intent of the rule - to discourage port tackers from chancing their luck by tacking in right at the mark?
OK 2139 & 2148
Back to Top
Brass View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 08
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1044
Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 20 at 2:03pm
Since rule 18.3 was changed in 2017 the protests I have seen have all had P fetching the mark, so the problem of P not fetching and the rule not applying has not arisen.  I don't think there have been any Cases or Appeals about it either.

Here are some thoughts.

The obvious concern is P, realising that she has tacked too close to S and caused S to sail above close hauled, will fake ‘not fetching’ and deliberately sail below the mark to avoid being bound by rule 18.3.  If she does that, she can do a bear away, gybe and re-attack the layline, instead of taking a two turns penalty for breaking rule 18.3.

As JimC has said if P actually does fetch the mark, that proves that she was fetching it and that rule 18.3 applies. Conversely, if P falls below it and does NOT fetch the mark, this is arguably evidence that she was not fetching the mark and rule 18.3 did NOT apply. A protest committee might need to look for evidence that, after tacking:

    P sailed below close hauled,

    P did not pinch as high as she was able so as to fetch the mark;

    P did not ‘shoot’ the mark when it was possible for her to do so.


These may be pretty subtle judgments, and, in the heat of the moment of a crowded rounding, there may be a distinct shortage of credible testimony.

Another issue is whether, if S is already pinching to fetch the mark, whether any action by P can cause S to sail above close hauled, when she is already doing so.      

Edited by Brass - 30 Jul 20 at 8:42am
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6358
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 20 at 3:21pm
It occurs to me that the main thing is that when leeward cannot fetch the mark RRS 18 is more or less out of the picture, and the relationship between boats is as of the rest of the track, so as normal windward must keep clear of leeward if given room. So its not unreasonable that 18.3 turns off. We do have the situation that ex port can tack under Starboard and then force them above closehauled, but that's the same anywhere else on the track anyway, so why not.

It seems to me that the 18.3 requirement has the specific action of preventing port from tacking under a boat on the layline and then squeezing into the mark. I don't think its really a problem if Windward is forced to luff a bit on the approach to the mark if new leeward is still forced to miss the mark.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy