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Demise of Dinghy Innovation?

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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 12:11pm
Well the so called 'failure' of the boards market that still outstrips dinghy sales annually and has morphed into other sports, kite, SUP, wing sail and is about to introduce easy access foil sailing to inland water by stealth sometime soon. The board market is alive and well and misreported, given the three large classes that have appeared since 2007. I give you the Kona, the Original Windsurfer alive and well in the southern hemisphere and the recent Windsurfer and Mistral LT, all tearing away everywhere there isn't an RYA crushing them and any attempt to launch something they don't appear to agree with.
Oh and right now? I've just had an all time record month for kite and kiteboard sales and guess what? No RYA involvement in the teaching programme.
Oh and a young female UK sailor has just absolutely creamed an Internation competition again and she had absolutely no input from the RYA squad system, just training from the best independant sailing club in the UK.

RYA?= Not fit for purpose.


Edited by iGRF - 22 Jul 20 at 12:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by Cirrus





What like that 'pedalo crossed with a fishing smack' thing you built† .... ?†







That 'pedalo crossed with a fishing smack' would have absolutely crushed any of that garbage you pushed upon those poor unsuspecting Blaze/Icon/Hybrid sheeples..
Unless of course they capsized it, then it might have been a tad problematic

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 12:38pm
I struggle to see much of a space for a new class.

The Aero, like it loathe it or indifferent (like me), has nicely filled the updated moderate performance boat spot, and with three rigs hits most of the sailor weight variations. High performance is dead, there's nothing to go there. Judging by "what boat should I get" questions the only thing approaching a significant hole in the market is "first proper racing singlehander that's also suitable for two handed sailing with partner/kids" and for all the reasons advanced that's a very hard if not impossible design proposition.

Innovation ought to be happening in the development classes, but they all have their rules problems that makes them tricky models. The Merlin is rule bound in a very odd (bizarrely successful but still odd) and expensive alley. The N12 is really too small for modern sailors and the rudder foils are a distraction. The I14 and Cherub have gone for the extreme end of the performance spectrum in an age that doesn't appear to be very interested in extreme boats. The Moths are obviously on a path of their own that doesn't involve the mainstream or mainstream budgets, and the International Canoes are also never going to be mass market, and both of them are extreme performance as well. There's never been a successful mainstream development singlehander in the UK, and yet that's where all the interest is at the moment.

I'm at a loss for ideas.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote epicfail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 12:49pm
Does it matter, what developments do you want? It's sailing, find a boat you like and sail it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by epicfail

Does it matter, what developments do you want? It's sailing, find a boat you like and sail it.


Well yes it does, because after a while you just get fed up and do something else if you can't find what you want.

Originally posted by JimC

There's never been a successful mainstream development singlehander in the UK, and yet that's where all the interest is at the moment.

I'm at a loss for ideas.


I often wonder why that is, Is it that there's never been a 'box and sail' rule or motivation to achieve it, or have boats like the Moth just demonstrated what extremities eventually folk will go to?

I liked that idea that was being expounded on here a while back around the PY discussions for an 'Open' single hander class with limits at say 420 and 10 sq mtrs racing scratch.

But yet again, there's no body of folk, not already tied to a class association that would be invested in the idea of promoting such a class.

I've been thinking of 'extending' the Farr 3.7 for example, 420 would better suit my purpose, but the moment I did it, I can go nowhere, it becomes a none class, can't race it with no Yardstick, can't use the old yardstick.

Or I'd like a Contender I could lift without getting a hernia, I genuinely tried to get one built, they wont, they are physically constrained by class rules.

And people wonder why I say the Class system is constraining dinghy deveopment to basically RS sailing and the odd Insider with a track record like H2 and that is very risky.

You see the problem?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 3:18pm

Blimey - A raw nerve was obviously touched there iGRF ! 

Apologies.  My jocular comments were not supposed to sting you at all if that is indeed what has just occurred - I assumed, wrongly it appears, a somewhat thicker skin given previous form on this forum.  However I'm still not sure you as an individual will ever 'get what you really want' in a dinghy.   Your wish list looks increasingly likely to be the proverbial moving target to me - you might, despite some of your many previous statements to the contrary, be better off channelling those restless energies into a regular development class.  N12, M-R, Moth etc would be worth considering for a start. 

 Alternatively why not accept the simple 'off piste' joys of the 'one-off' ...as occasionally others do as well Wink  ...  .. and in time join in the latent 10m2 sail 45kg and 14' long development singlehander class I'd join myself (well in my daftest dreams maybe !)


 


 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by JimC

The N12 is really too small for modern sailors and the rudder foils are a distraction.

It is true, with modern rigs the boats can de-power very effectively for light crews, the irony being that the T Foil rudders actually allow more crew weight to be carried, at least on the sea. 

Can't argue that the combination of my first point and a probably increasing average population weight makes the target market different to what is was in years gone by. 

Can't beat the sailing experience across all wind angles and all conditions in the N12 though!


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Post Options Post Options   Quote epicfail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 4:27pm
I wonder how many people have considered dinghy sailing, maybe done a RYA course and given up cos they can't find a class that they like? 

Having said that I would love to have the ability (grade one CSE in Woodwork notwithstanding) to design and build myself a single handed dinghy but would I enjoy sailing my one off more than my aged Europe? Probably not. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 6:05pm
Would be interesting to see a shape changing Hull, shape is adjustable to suit single handed or double handed, plus change shape to suit beating, running etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 20 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by epicfail

Does it matter, what developments do you want? It's sailing, find a boat you like and sail it.


Well yes it does, because after a while you just get fed up and do something else if you can't find what you want.

Originally posted by JimC

There's never been a successful mainstream development singlehander in the UK, and yet that's where all the interest is at the moment.

I'm at a loss for ideas.


I often wonder why that is, Is it that there's never been a 'box and sail' rule or motivation to achieve it, or have boats like the Moth just demonstrated what extremities eventually folk will go to?


There are internationally box rules that are successful PD racer / OZ goose and Diecipiedi 


Unfortunately culturally here in the UK we arenít interested in a few blokes agreeing a non performance rule and messing about in the garage over night.

A box rule with limits the build to 3 sheets of 4mm ply excluding foils, no carbon but as much glass as you like would be fun. 



Edited by tink - 22 Jul 20 at 7:10pm
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