New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Older Classes With Modern Rigs
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Older Classes With Modern Rigs

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 7>
Author
423zero View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 08 Jan 15
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2243
Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 20 at 9:56am
He is trying to get people to change boats like they do their cars, a updated car or different make, he doesn't get the sense of belonging to something, to meet and make friends and promote your organisation.
Robert
Back to Top
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2734
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 20 at 10:21am
Originally posted by DiscoBall

Interesting to see Finn & OK rigs described as modern. Yes the masts are carbon (and wing section for the Finns) but I always understood that the boom-on-the-deck style was a very old type of rig?

They've been around for a long time but there are sound aero reasons for doing so.  

These rigs have specific shortcomings, though the low boom aspect is generally exaggerated. Not being able to play the mainsheet upwind is maybe the main drawback vs a 'modern' rig that gets its leech tension from the kicker.
 

The 'modern' rigs I have sailed recently (Blaze and Spice primarily) get leech tension from the mainsheet upwind meaning you can keep the boat on it's feet by releasing leech tension and allowing the head twist and spill excess power. Some boats do the same by playing the kicker but that seems inefficient to me.

Aesthetics & refinement count for a lot. I think the Europe is one of the prettiest and nicest handling singlehanders I have sailed (maybe biased here) . Aero styling is definitely 'meh' , DZero is nice but maybe too stark. Funnily enough the new style Lightning 368 looks one of the most attractive boats around. :)

I agree 100% about the Europe, delightful boat. I think you, like me, have a soft spot for those old unstayed rigs ad the Lightning 368 has one too  Smile
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6291
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 20 at 10:40am
Worth looking at this:-
https://www.wb-sails.fi/en/sailmakers-log/rio-development
You can see how that clew corner of the sail is just in a turbulent mess contributing little. I know people talk about end plate effects, but all the big pressure differences are at the luff end of the sail. As said before droopy booms are associated with one designs where the leech length is fixed and the mast rake has increased over the years. See any droopy booms on Moths, 18s or high performance catamarans where they don't have a one design sail?



Edited by JimC - 26 Jun 20 at 10:41am
Back to Top
KazRob View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king
Avatar

Joined: 22 Oct 16
Location: Scotland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 198
Post Options Post Options   Quote KazRob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 20 at 10:47am
Jim - but you do see deck sweeper sails on Moths and A class cats to get the end plate effect but still leave room to get underneath it as they don't have a cockpit as such.
OK 2139 & 2148
Back to Top
Oatsandbeans View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 19 Sep 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 300
Post Options Post Options   Quote Oatsandbeans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 20 at 10:57am
I agree that the "end plate effect" is over-rated in most small dinghies. I suspect that if you had a tell tale on the bottom of the boom it would show that the air flow across from the windward side to the leeward side, under the boom, is non existent,but it would show you how disturbed the air flow is generally in that area.
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8615
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 20 at 11:49am
Adjusting mast rake for the wind strength and then dumping the boom at a specific position on the transom by playing the traveller gives you very repeatable leech tension and sheeting angle.
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8615
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 20 at 11:51am
Do Finn, OK, Europe, Contender have a set leech length, or just a maximum?

Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
Back to Top
Neptune View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 08 Jun 09
Location: Berkshire United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1285
Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 20 at 1:29pm
Nothing said so far makes me want to step out of my 25yr old design 300.  The rig works well, you donít play the kicker to Ďspill windí the rig flexes to do that; dumping the main to control tension isnít very efficient and you also then make the mainsail deeper.

You can walk across easily without worrying about the boom height, the hiking position is comfortable, the boats manouverable and you really can carve it through a gybe in pretty much anything that is sensible to be sailing in.  The fact that itís performance still outshines most newer boats says the the concept is pretty much spot on... without it needing to be reinvented!


Edited by Neptune - 26 Jun 20 at 1:29pm
RS300 and RS200, ex Musto Skiff
Back to Top
Paramedic View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 27 Jan 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 723
Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 20 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Do Finn, OK, Europe, Contender have a set leech length, or just a maximum?


From memory the OK has a maximum and its tight on "fast" sails. Its been a while since I measured one, but if there is a minimum its never been explored on the sails I've measured!

The contender leech I understand is nowhere near maximum because if it was it would be unsailable


Edited by Paramedic - 26 Jun 20 at 3:44pm
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5914
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 20 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by NicolaJayne


Originally posted by iGRF

72 kg? Not a porker? What is it with you people and your casual acceptance of ridiculously heavy old tubs, they had no choice back then, we have a choice now, no wonder the Aero just obliterated new boat sales. 102 kg for a bloody Contender. In the real world it is AGAINST THE LAW for folk to be forced to lift over 32kg in the work place, why does everyone think it's OK to do it in our leisure?

i see our not-so-learned† friend is† demonstrating his ignorance again†


Thanks for reminding me lass, it's 25kgs, it's been a while since I had to study health and safety in the workplace.

Either way, if dinghys were stock you wouldn't be able to move them on your own without an assisting device.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 7>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy