New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Older Classes With Modern Rigs
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Older Classes With Modern Rigs

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 7>
Author
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2734
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 20 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by H2

its a good point though that classes like the Finn and OK are just really nice boats made better by modern rigs. I do wonder if they would be made even nicer if they went further and used modern materials for the hulls too!

They more or less do, only glass, no carbon or kevlar, in the hulls or boom but epoxy foam sandwich is the norm for modern OKs and I'll bet they are all carrying max correctors. Carbon fibre hulls would make them a bit stiffer but unless the min weight was significantly reduced* I doubt it would make the boat any nicer to sail and probably not significantly quicker.

* I don't see that happening, it's a fairly strict one design and to do so would devalue older boats and make it a two tier class.
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6291
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 20 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by rich96

Its such a shame they didn't put an attractive rig on it. The high boom looks beach club style all the way

You do realise those droopy at the stern booms are a triumph of fashion over aerodynamics, and only exist because people got used to seeing one design boats with sails that don't fit due to twice as much mast rake as the designer ever envisaged?

Edited by JimC - 25 Jun 20 at 8:26pm
Back to Top
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2734
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 20 at 8:29pm
KazRob said :-

"At the last worlds the 3rd place boat was a (very well sailed) 30yr old glass hull with a modern carbon rig," 

There's progress and there's keeping what works. Not for nothing that Raceboards are way more popular than Formula. Formula Windsurfing had its 15 minutes of fame and then everybody realised that Raceboards could be raced anywhere and in any conditions by pretty much any half decent windsurfer. Rest assured kite racing will go the same way as FW and foiling Moths and Musto Skiffs have gone down exactly the same blind alley where only the elite can sail them well enough to have any chance of getting around the course in anything but ideal conditions.

Keeping old boats substantially the same (and remember OK's have carbon sticks these days and anybody can buy one, put it on a decent older hull and, potentially, get top 3 at the nationals) doesn't prevent people building V2's or Hybrids or RS Aeros or 100's. A cost/benefit analysis of shaving 20kg off the OK is probably going to demonstrate that is it not a good idea, why not just go and build something better without the constraints of a 70 year old one-design rule?


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 25 Jun 20 at 8:30pm
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Back to Top
Peter Barton View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 93
Post Options Post Options   Quote Peter Barton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 20 at 10:51pm
Originally posted by H2

Originally posted by 423zero

Sales must be bad, Aero were only achieving 5 a week last year.

And much of that was people replacing original boats which are now knackered! They are cheap for a reason

423zero,
2019 was a great year for the Class and nearer to double that number of new RS Aeros were sold worldwide.
After the RS Aero successfully losing the Olympic vote having won the selection trials the Class went on to have a fantastic Europeans in Garda and Worlds in Australia. We were all set for similar again this year...

H2,
Absolutely not.
RS Aeros are NOT cheap, for a reason. Good value - yes! Preloved RS Aeros are holding their value incredibly well, too well perhaps. Buyers of new boats over the past 6 years have generally been getting back what they paid for them new, when they come sell.
Hulls, spars & foils are all proving bullet proof.  I am yet to break any and I have been trying really hard for 6 years now. Epoxy and carbon are not cheap but they are light and strong - and some reliability comes from simplicity.

This past Sunday was testament to the RS Aeros sail-ability and durability and quite typical when we have fruity conditions at Lymington. We had a big wind against tide day with sea breeze and spring ebb both increasing against each other, which peaked at max gust 27kn at max tide flow producing some nasty waves. The main boats out there were a training bubble of 5  RS Aeros and a couple more playing on the fringes. There were very few other dinghies out whereas the week before had seen probably 80 various dinghies launch through the day. We happily weaved and bounced our RS Aero 9s though the tide chop and breaking wave crests, testing our own limits, whilst confident of the boats withstanding the abuse as we have done this many times before. Some sailors took some tumbles, but were quick to recover with no breakages or wear and tear.
Conditions peaked about an hour after these VIDEOS 

rich96,
I can assure you there was nothing overly high about my boom racing the RS Aero 9 back upwind at 80kg against heavier Greg & Tom in 27kn.
Basically as soon as you engage the toe strap, (i.e. put your shoulders over the side), say in 8kn, the boom should be down to the horizontal but still adequate space under it.
Fashion over RS Aerodynamics? Yes, it is what you get used to looking at and sailors have been looking at Lasers and Contenders for a long time.
Back to Top
rich96 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 20 Jan 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 514
Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 20 at 3:37am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by rich96

Its such a shame they didn't put an attractive rig on it. The high boom looks beach club style all the way

You do realise those droopy at the stern booms are a triumph of fashion over aerodynamics, and only exist because people got used to seeing one design boats with sails that don't fit due to twice as much mast rake as the designer ever envisaged?


Umm - Laser ?, D Zero ?, OK ? Finn ?, Europe ? All of these ?

Ask why the Finn & Europe sailors sail with the boom on the deck - nothing to do with fashion
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8615
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 20 at 5:07am
The Aero boom makes a lot of sense to me with an aging sailing population.

Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
Back to Top
Paramedic View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 27 Jan 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 723
Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 20 at 6:58am
Originally posted by iGRF

That OK, it's a piece of junk, it's only kept going piglipsticking to chance the handicap. 

The OK has an absolutely lousy handicap  LOL LOL LOL
Back to Top
Gordon 1430 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 27 Jun 17
Location: Lee on Solent
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 242
Post Options Post Options   Quote Gordon 1430 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 20 at 7:23am
The Phantom is another class that was designed a long time ago (50th anniversary next year) but with modern materials is a brilliant boat. The skinny carbon rigs most use now, works really well and allow lighter sailors a real chance as Mr Bolland found last year.
Every time I let someone have a go in my boat they end up buying one if they are looking for a single hander.
Hull with centreboard and all fittings is just over 60kg so still pretty light for quite a big hull. 
Not a dig at the Aero but not sure what is included in the 30kg advertised for the Aero.
It would be interesting to compare weight on the rig of an Aero unstayed so hast to be self supporting verses the Phantom with shrouds etc but the CST is certainly light.
Gordon
Phantom 1430
Back to Top
DiscoBall View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 03 Jan 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 269
Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 20 at 8:45am
Interesting to see Finn & OK rigs described as modern. Yes the masts are carbon (and wing section for the Finns) but I always understood that the boom-on-the-deck style was a very old type of rig?

These rigs have specific shortcomings, though the low boom aspect is generally exaggerated. Not being able to play the mainsheet upwind is maybe the main drawback vs a 'modern' rig that gets its leech tension from the kicker.

Aesthetics & refinement count for a lot. I think the Europe is one of the prettiest and nicest handling singlehanders I have sailed (maybe biased here) . Aero styling is definitely 'meh' , DZero is nice but maybe too stark. Funnily enough the new style Lightning 368 looks one of the most attractive boats around. :)
Back to Top
NicolaJayne View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 01 Mar 19
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 49
Post Options Post Options   Quote NicolaJayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 20 at 9:48am
Originally posted by iGRF

72 kg? Not a porker? What is it with you people and your casual acceptance of ridiculously heavy old tubs, they had no choice back then, we have a choice now, no wonder the Aero just obliterated new boat sales. 102 kg for a bloody Contender. In the real world it is AGAINST THE LAW for folk to be forced to lift over 32kg in the work place, why does everyone think it's OK to do it in our leisure?


i see our not-so-learned  friend is  demonstrating his ignorance again 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 7>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy