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By The Lee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote By The Lee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 20 at 4:44pm
At a recent 4.7 euros there were so many LPE 4.7 bottom section that failed measurement that they were allowed to race otherwise there would be no one to race!
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CT249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 20 at 9:16pm
The funny thing is I don't know anyone close to the front of the Laser class who believes the stories about significantly faster superboats.  Certainly when I checked the results, there was NO apparent evidence for Australians (who obviously have access to Aussie boats) to do better in the world titles that allowed people to bring their own boats, than in supplied-boat events like most worlds and the Olympics.

It's a bit like the claims that you need a new sail for every regatta, when in fact people like multiple world Masters champs say specifically that you do NOT - Mark Bethwaite, a wealthy man who can get what he wants, used the same sail to win three world titles.


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CT249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 20 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by getafix

Originally posted by tink

Or to within the letter of the manual what is the absolute best Laser you can build. 

IMO that's the problem with a 'build manual' or 'specification' versus one or two centrally controlled factories under one badge/organisation ... This kind of guide is exactly that, a guide, it's not an absolute and is only as good a measurement and tolerance guide as its enforcement. The reality of an open market with choices for buyers is to incentivise the builders to look for advantage; you get a reputation for making 'the best' of something and you get the lion's share of the orders, and that counts for development classes and ODs, for example (respectively) Ovi's successful i14's and FF's.

One of the off-putting aspects of the L*ser long term has been this inconsistency and boatpark myth stuff, it was marketed like a SMOD but built a lot like a restricted OD class.

The Laser may have been built like that in some places, but it certainly did not have to be built like that.  Certainly they are incomparably closer than the restricted OD class I have had most to do with, which is the FF and in which there are significantly different hull shapes, vastly different construction methods, etc. My 30 year old Laser appears to be completely competitive with ex-Olympians on new boats, as were the brand new boats my brother and I pulled off racks when we were young and top 10 nationally, whereas to use another class you mentioned my less than 30 year old FF was completely uncompetitive in many conditions (despite being #1 Classic at the nationals and able to score 2nd and 4th overall in light winds).  

Compared to my other SMOD hulls, also from single local factories such as the Tasar, Windsurfer and J/24, the Laser has been vastly more successful at maintaining class uniformity and competitiveness.  


Edited by CT249 - 30 Mar 20 at 9:31pm
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zeon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 20 at 10:42pm
It might be like that in Australia. Itís not like that over here. Iíve owned two lasers in my life , a 1978 one which I owned for nearly twenty years and 1999 boat . Both were good fast durable boats both built before LPE took control of manufacturing lasers. If boat park talk ,in every club a have been to in the last decade, has any credence . There is no way I would ever buy a laser build by LPE in the last decade if I want a durable fault free boat. 😔
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 20 at 5:52am
Originally posted by fab100


Certainly one of the guys at our club bought a new one for his lad who sails the 4.7 circuit, and when boats there were compared they were all over the shop, in terms of rake and even (IIR) lower mast section pre-bend.


I had a good friend who went to the 4.7 worlds a couple of years ago, supplied kit and 90% of the lower sections would not measure. They ended up having to fudge it to allow the event to take place.

Originally posted by fab100


So as to JimC's better boat, is that better than the next one or better than the shoddy efforts Laser sailors have been saddled with historically? I can't imagine Devoti, Nautivela or Ovi (don't know the others on Jeffers' list but I suspect RS would counsel against a Thai builder given recent experience) compromising themselves and building down to past dodgy standards. 


The big advantage for Devoti over the others is space, they have a massive facility in Poland (a former WW2 submarine base).
Paul
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CT249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 20 at 9:25am
Originally posted by zeon

It might be like that in Australia. Itís not like that over here.

Sounds like we're 100% in agreement that poor quality is a possible problem with the class, but not a definite problem as some are implying.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 20 at 10:33am
Originally posted by CT249

Originally posted by zeon

It might be like that in Australia. Itís not like that over here.

Sounds like we're 100% in agreement that poor quality is a possible problem with the class, but not a definite problem as some are implying.



I know of several people who have had major issues with brand new boats from LPE. Stuff you can see not just stuff like mast rake (stress cracks etc.. that were clearly visible at collection time).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote epicfail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 20 at 6:14pm
How many people are likely to want a new Laser? 
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tink View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 20 at 6:35pm

I presume that over the past 50 years we have gained about 5kg. Someone in the 75 to 80kg range kind of falls between the big and small rig of the Aero and D-Zero so Laser a better choice. 


There are plenty of Lasers out there so economic to get a competitive boat and eventually people upgrade, if you have sailed something for years youíre likely to stay in the  same class, go up the chain and people buy new boats. 


Back to the build quality this is the mast foot 

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http://proasail.blogspot.com
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 20 at 8:12pm
Wow, that is a lot of tolerance  in the fit between the mast pot and the step. I assume it was designed like that initially to make it really easy to fit the deck and hull together.

Maybe some hull and deck moulds needed this much tolerance to fit because they were built to a wide tolerance in the first place.

There now is absolutely no need for this much tolerance. If they are all like this then I'm not suprised mast rake is a problem.

It's a shame old Lasers don't get sawn up much as this would have been sorted out years ago.
Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Alpha 220PR
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