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Brass View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Jan 20 at 9:45am
Originally posted by piglet

if U18 the parent/guardian/loco parentis on-site makes the decision,

In the absence of a parent or guardian, who might the 'loco parentis' on site be?

What criteria do you use to identify the 'in loco parentis' person in the absence of parents or guardians?

Can you give some examples?
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Posts: 1146 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 20 at 9:49am
Originally posted by piglet

My view is RRS4 serves to protect the OOD from having to make decisions on sailor suitability that the OOD would quite likely be unqualified to make and could then be exposed to risk of litigation.
Rule 4 is actually a pretty weak reed to protect you from litigation.

If you get some ambulance-chaser or champion of victimhood coming after you, nothing can stop them suing you, but the RYA insurance for qualified Race Officials will give pretty good protection as to outcomes.

Always provided you do a diligent, conscientious job in the first place.
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Posts: 514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 20 at 9:52am
Originally posted by ian.r.mcdonald

But are we really saying that having a quiet chat with some sailors clearly struggling would open you to possible litigation?
 

No, what I am saying is if the OOD is placed with the responsibility of judging competitors suitability then the OOD could get it wrong and let someone sail who shouldn't have, and it ends in tragedy. Then he is culpable.

That doesn't stop the OOD, or more likely fellow competitors having a chat with your struggling sailor(or parent), along the lines of, looking lively today, you going to be OK, would you like to crew for someone else?
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Posts: 514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 20 at 10:02am
Originally posted by Brass

Originally posted by piglet

if U18 the parent/guardian/loco parentis on-site makes the decision,

In the absence of a parent or guardian, who might the 'loco parentis' on site be?

What criteria do you use to identify the 'in loco parentis' person in the absence of parents or guardians?

Can you give some examples?
 

Loco Parentis- appointed adult to act in parents absence?
When I was dragging the kids round the Topper and Kent schools circuit there were actually Loco Parentis forms to sign.
At the club it's a bit less formal, one parent asks another to keep a weather eye while they nip up the shops etc.
In our case Loco Parentis is not a designated club official, even during junior training we insist on parents et al being on site.
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Posts: 1146 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 20 at 10:07am
Originally posted by piglet

Duty of Care

Originally posted by piglet

...  he is culpable.

Mate, in among your other helpful and sensible advice, you are throwing around some 'trigger words' in a publicly accessible forum that could well be prejudicial to some conscientious capable race officer who gets sued in the future, or at least deter some people from participating in race management.

Sure RO's and other race officials have 'responsibilites' and 'duties' but lets just leave it at that.

BTW, thanks for the 'loco parentis' stuff.


Edited by Brass - 16 Jan 20 at 10:39am
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Posts: 514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 20 at 10:11am
My apologies, I stand down, scratch what I said.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 20 at 10:24am
Please don't Piglet. This isn't a legal chambers, it's a sailing forum. Chat and opinion is allowed.
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Posts: 3406 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 20 at 11:06am
Good thread so far.
Robert
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 20 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by A2Z

Originally posted by ian.r.mcdonald

I defer to superior knowledge about this. But are we really saying that having a quiet chat with some sailors clearly struggling to rig and launch, that waiting for a less windy day would be sensible, is not acceptable and would open you to possible litigation?

No one is saying that. Advising someone they may be out of their depth is one thing, prohibiting them from sailing is another.

I do believe juniors should not be able to sail without a parent/guardian on site.


Why? What does that achieve? Genuinely want to understand the perspective?

What’s a Junior?
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Posts: 1146 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 20 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by sargesail

Originally posted by A2Z

[I do believe juniors should not be able to sail without a parent/guardian on site.


Why? What does that achieve? Genuinely want to understand the perspective?

What’s a Junior?


Pretty good questions.


OK, a parent on site can be held to have consented/agreed/approved of a junior sailor going afloat to compete in a race, and thus might be amenable to rule 4.


I think this argument could run into trouble once the sailor begins racing and conditions or circumstances change:  How can a parent on the shore be 'responsible' for the decision to 'continue racing' on the water?


What's a Junior needs thinking about.


There's obviously all the difference in the world between a 16  year old National Squad member who may be qualified as an Instructor, and a 9 year old at the bottom of Opti Silver Fleet.


Edited by Brass - 16 Jan 20 at 10:14pm
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