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Simple Rule Question

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Post Options Post Options   Quote epicfail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 20 at 11:42pm
Ok....maybe it wasn't such a simple question. I am enjoying reading the answers. 


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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 12:39am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

...

I disagree, but only in the sense that M hailing and tacking almost simultaneously did not give W the chance to keep clear, W was under no obligation to anticipate L tacking.

...


You can choose to anticipate it or put your head in sand, leeward/ahead boat on port tack, if he's not pinned down totally, will take his chance to get onto starboard at some point. Your supposed to be 'keeping clear' that means you have the spacce to respond without anticiapation.
Take the middle boat out of the picture, the windward boat has to keep clear of the leeward, and once the leeward boat is down to its stbd course, the port boat has to keep clear.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 6:32am
Think you're reading a different rulebook to me mate.

It really messes up rule understanding when people mix up a sort of semi tactical evaluation with the rules. Its a really bad idea. In the situation as described leeward broke a rule when they tacked. That's it.

There is definitely no requirement in the rules to anticipate that another competitor might break a rule.

Edited by JimC - 08 Jan 20 at 6:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 8:44am
In the L, M, W situation, if L hails Water or Room is he calling just M or both M and W?  Or does he have to wait for M to call W?

Our start line has a beach at the favoured end and if beating against a flood tide thirty boats will be heading into the beach on starboard ... given that we know that L is going to call, as soon as W hears the call he is likely to shout “water called” and push his helm down ... is the suggestion that he does not need to react until M calls?

I should add that L will typically carry on for a few boatlengths on starboard to secure an advantage ... but that is another story!


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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 9:13am
If the first boat to tack gets onto starboard close hauled course, others have to keep clear, end of.

If a boat manages to tack and gets onto a stbd close hauled course with the bow 1mm from the side of the ex windward boat, I think there would be considerable doubt about whether the tacking boat allowed room, unless they took a very slow tack (and we are talking about Lasers here). To say it's "end of" is clearly not true.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 9:32am
Originally posted by davidyacht

In the L, M, W situation, if L hails Water or Room is he calling just M or both M and W?  Or does he have to wait for M to call W?

Our start line has a beach at the favoured end and if beating against a flood tide thirty boats will be heading into the beach on starboard ... given that we know that L is going to call, as soon as W hears the call he is likely to shout “water called” and push his helm down ... is the suggestion that he does not need to react until M calls?

I should add that L will typically carry on for a few boatlengths on starboard to secure an advantage ... but that is another story!

Pretty much all you need to know about when and when not to 'pass on' hails.

Rule 20, Room to Tack at an Obstruction
An explanation of the application of rule 20 when three boats sailing close-hauled on the same tack are approaching an obstruction and the leeward-most boat hails for room to tack, but cannot tack unless both boats to windward of her tack.


Edited by Brass - 08 Jan 20 at 9:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 10:27am
Case 113, clear, concise and to the point. For once, I'm not left with a headache!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 10:56am
Originally posted by Rupert

Case 113, clear, concise and to the point. For once, I'm not left with a headache!

but a completely different situation.
SS's description of his incident is not even self-consistent, so it's no surprise that each of us is interpreting it differently.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 11:09am
I'm not sure where the inconsistencies in my description lie, can't be bothered rereading all my posts just now so apologies if that's the case.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 20 at 11:23am
Thanks Brass ... I think that we have two or three different “water” situations running on this thread, but the discussion is interesting all the same.

The snap of a jib cleat tends to be a preface to the hail.

The reality is that collisions in this type of situation tend to be messy and time consuming to disentangle so tactically best avoided ... best to err on the side of caution.
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