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epicfail
Groupie Joined: 01 Dec 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 61 |
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Topic: Simple Rule Question Posted: 06 Jan 20 at 7:57pm |
As I understand it the leeward boat has priority, so... After the start of a race I am the leeward boat of a line of five boats on starboard tack. I need to tack as I am running out of room due to an island in the lake. Do I have to ask for room to tack or just slow and tack behind the boats to windward? If I ask for room do the other windward boats have to move in turn? |
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ColPrice2002
Far too distracted from work Joined: 25 Nov 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 222 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jan 20 at 8:39pm |
Hi,
Read Rule 20... If you are close-hauled, approaching an obstruction and you can't tack and avoid a windward boat, you hail for "room to tack". The hailed boat must respond. Either replies "you tack" and then allows you to tack, or it must tack. Obviously,it can hailthe boat to windward for room to tack (and so on up the fleet). In this case, hail a bit early, getting several boats to tack takes a few moments... Colin |
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epicfail
Groupie Joined: 01 Dec 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 61 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jan 20 at 9:00pm |
That's great, thank you. I'll try to avoid being in that situation but last Sunday I tacked behind and ended up loosing rather a lot. I need to be more assertive!
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ColPrice2002
Far too distracted from work Joined: 25 Nov 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 222 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jan 20 at 10:28pm |
You're welcome.
The rule applies to an obstruction... Than means that it could be an island, stand-on sailing boat or similar (see the definition of obstruction). The one thing it isn't is the committee boat! That is special exclusion. I learnt this one rule years' ago sailing on the river - also how to tack quickly and sail to inches! Colin |
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jan 20 at 10:42pm |
You need to read the rule carefully and understand that it is not a carte blanche. Here is the rule
There area also a number of World Sailing Cases about rule 20 which are quite important. Remember that the hailed boat can respond by hailing 'you tack'. This can play out in various ways including that described in these two cases, which you can follow the links and read in full: Rule Rule: 20.2" data-url="/rules/678?xformat=fleet" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(51, 122, 183);">20.2(c), Room to Tack at an Obstruction: Responding When a boat is hailed for room to tack at an obstruction and replies “You tack,” and the hailing boat is then able to tack and avoid the hailed boat in a seamanlike way, the hailed boat has complied with rule 20.2(c). Rule Rule: 20.2" data-url="/rules/678?xformat=fleet" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(51, 122, 183);">20.2(c), Room to Tack at an Obstruction: Responding When a boat with right of way is required to give another boat room for a manoeuvre, right of way does not transfer to the boat entitled to room. When, in reply to her call for room to tack when approaching an obstruction, a boat is hailed “You tack”, and when she does so and is then able to tack again to keep clear in a seamanlike way, the other boat has given the room required. Here are the headnotes from the Case Book for all Cases about Rule 20 Rule 20, Room to Tack at an Obstruction CASE 3 A leeward port-tack boat, hailing for room to tack when faced with an oncoming starboard-tack boat, an obstruction, is not required to anticipate that the windward boat will fail to comply with her obligation to tack promptly or otherwise provide room. CASE 10 If a boat hails for room to tack when she is neither approaching an obstruction nor sailing close-hauled or above, she breaks rule 20.1. The hailed boat is required to respond even if the hail breaks rule 20.1. CASE 11 When boats are overlapped at an obstruction, including an obstruction that is a right-of-way boat, the outside boat must give the inside boat room to pass between her and the obstruction. CASE 33 When a boat approaching an obstruction hails for room to tack, but does so before the time when she needs to begin the process described in rule 20 to avoid the obstruction safely, she breaks rule 20.1(a). However, even if the hail breaks rule 20.1(a), the hailed boat must respond. An inside overlapped boat is entitled to room between the outside boat and an obstruction under rule 19.2(b) even though she has tacked into the inside overlapping position. CASE 35 When a boat is hailed for room to tack at an obstruction and replies ‘You tack’, and the hailing boat is then able to tack and avoid the hailed boat in a seamanlike way, the hailed boat has complied with rule 20.2(c). CASE 54 A boat is entitled to hail for room to tack at the time when she needs to begin the process described in rule 20 to avoid the obstruction safely. A boat that hails must give the hailed boat sufficient time to respond before tacking herself. The hail must clearly convey the hailing boat’s need to tack and be sufficiently loud to be heard in the prevailing conditions. If the hailed boat does not respond, the hailing boat can repeat her hail if time permits, or avoid the obstruction and protest. CASE 101 When a boat with right of way is required to give another boat room for a manoeuvre, right of way does not transfer to the boat entitled to room. When, in reply to her call for room to tack when approaching an obstruction, a boat is hailed ‘You tack’, and when she does so and is then able to tack again to keep clear in a seamanlike way, the other boat has given the room required. CASE 113 An explanation of the application of rule 20 when three boats sailing close-hauled on the same tack are approaching an obstruction and the leeward-most boat hails for room to tack, but cannot tack unless both boats to windward of her tack. Edited by Brass - 06 Jan 20 at 11:03pm |
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jan 20 at 7:46am |
Epicfail, just when you thought it was simple...
Actually, in real life it is a lot more simple than the post above suggests. You may hear the expression "Water please" from old people like me - I expect Brass will now say how wrong that is! |
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zeon
Far too distracted from work Joined: 20 Aug 16 Online Status: Offline Posts: 316 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jan 20 at 8:22am |
Lol me too. This is the first rule I ever learned, when I started sailing Sailing on a narrow river in Warwick you tend to use it a lot more than on open water 😂😀
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423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jan 20 at 9:59am |
Room at the mark, most common comment I hear, not from me though, I always avoid confrontation, life's too short, drop in behind or make sure you are first to mark/obstacle.
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Robert
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jan 20 at 10:04am |
I had a very similar situation recently, three boats, Blaze (me) to windward and slightly ahead, and two Lasers to leeward in line abreast, the far leeward Laser tacked without hailing forcing the middle Laser to hail and tack immediately upon which, before completing this tack he hit me on the aft quarter and shouted "protest". I had not opportunity to respond so replied that I needed time to keep clear. Nothing more was said after the race but I'm still not sure if I was right or not. Because we were close it could be that I was in breach of Rule 11 in that the leeward boat made contact when tacking so I was not 'keeping clear' [def. "keeping clear" (b) when the boats are overlapped, if the right-of-way boat can also change course in both directions without immediately making contact.] I'm not sure if a crash tack fails the definition of changing direction though? Also I don't know if he hit me before or after passing head to wind so that may be relevant (before and he was luffing, after he was tacking) he certainly had not completed his tack (sails filling on the new close hauled course). With hindsight I should have tacked off early to avoid the risk, particularly as the Blaze is not so close winded as a Laser. Edited by Sam.Spoons - 07 Jan 20 at 10:08am |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jan 20 at 11:00am |
So three boats overlapped. RRS 11.
Leeward (ROW) tacks. On passing head to wind she must keep clear of all others RRS13. Presumably she must have tacked onto starboard, in which case she newly acquired ROW after completing the tack, and RRS15 applied. Middle hails. Windward must tack as soon as possible (20.2) or hail back "you tack". So, did you tack as soon as possible after being hailed? As soon as possible depends on the boat. If you were unable to respond in time then it seems possible middle broke 20.2a. It might be that middle was forced to break 20.2 by leeward breaking RRS15. Edited by JimC - 07 Jan 20 at 11:02am |
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