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Why does the Laser exist?

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zeon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 19 at 9:16am
Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by zeon


[QUOTE=sargesail]And I put it to you that with that background heíd have looked much the same whatever he was sailing. Itís about effort levels.

Believe what you want . If you think all boats take the same effect to get round a race course thatís fine . 
I donít . 


Obviously all boats require different efforts to get around a course but the comment earlier that in a breeze a Laser canít be got around a course are not correct. Getting going again after a capsize is equally part of it and the Laser does better than most in the OP list in that regard [/QUOTE


I have never said it cannot be got round a course, I have only ever made the point that it takes more physical effect than a lot of similar boats because of itís unforgiving rig . A point also made by Jeffers, another long time laser sailor. Your capsize point is a good one , itís very easy to do a dry one and easy to get back into when you donít 
Donít get me wrong , I love the laser , I sailed one for 20 years, but I am not blind to its faults.
And in the end , as a mid fleet sailor  with limited talent, itís these faults that made me leave the class.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Aged 42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 19 at 9:10am
At the Essex Yacht Club we are all on Radial rigs, regardless of our size. We have the mighty Andrea, who is all of 5 foot 2 and, ahem, 60kg maybe. She is no youngster either, and she is always a potential winner in any wind. Its not the size of the dog in the fight.
Can I say that in the context of Andrea :-)

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 19 at 8:35am
Originally posted by zeon

Believe what you want .

Indeed you can and will. But if you go and watch, say, a Laser Masters event in breeze you will see plenty of sailors who are no longer capable of that sort of effort somehow contrive to get round the course.

Arguably the question that one should ask is what the difference in performance is between sailing at 100% of an Olympic sailor's physical capabilities and say 75%, 50% or whatever is within a given sailors own capabilities. In serious breeze just about any unballasted sailboat will make demands beyond any sailor's physical capability.

We all have to back off a bit in extreme conditions. The ultimate question, I suppose, would be whether you are still having fun backed off like that, or has it become an unremitting struggle for no reward. And only the individual can answer that for themself.

Edited by JimC - 18 Dec 19 at 8:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 19 at 5:59am
Originally posted by zeon


Originally posted by sargesail

And I put it to you that with that background heíd have looked much the same whatever he was sailing. Itís about effort levels.

Believe what you want . If you think all boats take the same effect to get round a race course thatís fine .†
I donít .†


Obviously all boats require different efforts to get around a course but the comment earlier that in a breeze a Laser canít be got around a course are not correct. Getting going again after a capsize is equally part of it and the Laser does better than most in the OP list in that regard
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http://proasail.blogspot.com
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zeon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 19 at 11:17pm
Originally posted by sargesail

And I put it to you that with that background heíd have looked much the same whatever he was sailing. Itís about effort levels.

Believe what you want . If you think all boats take the same effect to get round a race course thatís fine . 

I donít . 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 19 at 11:09pm
And I put it to you that with that background heíd have looked much the same whatever he was sailing. Itís about effort levels.
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zeon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 19 at 10:02pm
Two weeks ago on Sunday it was very windy , our race was won by our only regular laser sailor. He is in his late 30s, the perfect size for a laser, very very fit , has been though the squad system to a very high level and is probably the best sailor at the club.
After the race he looked like death warmed up , he was a broken man.
I base my view on my own experience and what I see with my own eyes.
I rest my case and will not comment again . Smile


Edited by zeon - 17 Dec 19 at 10:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 19 at 9:06pm
I completely agree with Jim and Tink. 

Alright for ultimate speed around the course in wind maybe a full rig Laser needs over six foot and 14st.

However, it need not be all about brute force, sympathetic boat handling can take a lightweight a long way and look tidy albeit if a little off the top pace. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 19 at 6:11pm
A fifty year old design may not have the sophistication of recent craft in terms of de-powering and gust response but easing the main and keeping it flat will get you around a course without superhuman fitness. 
The issue with the switching to the smaller rig is you never get experience in the stronger winds with a standard rig. 
My experience comes from an annul two weeks in the Sun and big winds so compressed learning in idea conditions but very possible. I have seen a clearly skilled but 70kg sailor dominate races on big wind and waves. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 19 at 2:51pm
Originally posted by JimC

Its not really necessary to hike like a demon, you just have to accept your limitations and sail like the Olympic boys would in another 5 knots... It just feels like its necessary.

Its probably inevitable that if you can change down a rig size you will, especially since you'll be more competitive if the handicap changes. Perhaps its a sign of increasing average sailor age.

It doesn't seem to me that there's any especial reason why an Aero should be more difficult to sail when overpowered than any other class, but *because* the zeitgeist in the class is to buy two rigs, everyone does change down...

Jim, I know you know much more about sailing and sailors that I ever will . But I can tell you from personal experience if you cannot hike the laser flat it is impossible to get it round a race course if itís windy .
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