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Technical protest

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gbrspratt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gbrspratt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Technical protest
    Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 6:04pm
Example: at a club Wednesday night race. You have a few development class dinghy's racing. Amongst themselves they notice one of the boats has either found a loop hole in the rules or has done something illegal. So one helpful chap protests. What is the process here? Because the rule relates to the class and not an on the water event? How does a local club deal with it? Is it out of their hands or do they have to get the RYA and/or class involved to help? Or make their own ruling?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 6:22pm
64.3 Decisions on Protests Concerning Class Rules
(a) When the protest committee finds that deviations in excess of
tolerances specified in the class rules were caused by damage
or normal wear and do not improve the performance of the
boat, it shall not penalize her. However, the boat shall not race
again until the deviations have been corrected, except when the
protest committee decides there is or has been no reasonable
opportunity to do so.
(b) When the protest committee is in doubt about the meaning of a
class rule, it shall refer its questions, together with the relevant
facts, to an authority responsible for interpreting the rule. In
making its decision, the committee shall be bound by the reply
of the authority.
(c) When a boat is penalized under a class rule and the protest
committee decides that the boat also broke the same rule in
earlier races in the same event, the penalty may be imposed for
all such races. No further protest is necessary.
(d) When a boat penalized under a class rule states in writing that
she intends to appeal, she may compete in subsequent races
without changes to the boat. However, if she fails to appeal or
the appeal is decided against her, she shall be disqualified
without a further hearing from all subsequent races in which
she competed.
(e) Measurement costs arising from a protest involving a class rule
shall be paid by the unsuccessful party unless the protest
committee decides otherwise

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gbrspratt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 6:30pm
(b) When the protest committee is in doubt about the meaning of a
class rule, it shall refer its questions, together with the relevant
facts, to an authority responsible for interpreting the rule. In
making its decision, the committee shall be bound by the reply
of the authority.

Is the rya responsible for rule interpretation?
So the club is entitled to make a ruling if they believe they understand? But what if it has further ramifications to the class? For example is actually on half the fleet but no one noticed the error before?

Thanks for the help so far!
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 6:38pm
The authority depends on the class. AIUI if its an International class then its technically ISAF/World Sailing, although I'd seek advice from the RYA first, if its a National Class then the RYA, and if its a CA managed class then the Class Association. Nothing a club PC decides is binding on the CA, since the club is not a responsible authority. It would of course be sensible to notify the CA, since they may wish to correct, clarify or even change the rule depending...

The easiest and most obvious option in most circumstances will be simply to get the boat remeasured by an official CA measurer. Of course someone will need to pay their expenses as noted in the rule.

Edited by JimC - 13 Nov 19 at 6:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gbrspratt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 6:41pm
Thanks Jim, that I think clears up my random thoughts. Although I didn't realise they could basically back date a protest and remove your results from previous races.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 7:08pm
Whilst of course the best option is to get someone with an aura of authority and not involved in any future protest to speak to the transgressors . We want to race rather than sit in protest rooms, why dont you revert to original settings and avoid future issues?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 7:28pm
Because a properly formulated protest hearing is the civilised way to sort out disagreements about measurement rules. The alternatives include prolonged bad feeling, back biting, mistrust and the ever popular online accusations... Your option appears to assume a presumption of guilt, even of cheating.


Edited by JimC - 13 Nov 19 at 7:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 7:54pm
One would hope that the protest committee would have an aura of authority?

And would find facts and come to a conclusion based upon them.
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ian.r.mcdonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 8:00pm
I would have thought some initial discussion to avoid the full protest would be useful.

I stand aside to your higher knowledge but would prefer to be out sailing
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gbrspratt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by ian.r.mcdonald

I would have thought some initial discussion to avoid the full protest would be useful.

I stand aside to your higher knowledge but would prefer to be out sailing


It's purely because it's development based and mainly down to interpretation of the rules. So it's about how to find who has the final say at club level. Otherwise the discussion is endless and gets nowhere.
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