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Technical protest

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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 12:37pm
People with ideas, perhaps they could Incorporate them into a new boat ?
Robert
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 12:57pm
They did and called it Crazy K-Yote Two  Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gbrspratt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by 423zero

People with ideas, perhaps they could Incorporate them into a new boat ?


What difference does it make if it's a new boat or old?

The halyard bag has been looked at by certain rya members and usb thought to be legal in the current rules. The class disagree. But haven't changed any rules or pointed to any specific violations.

Similar (but reverse) with rudder fences. They say they are legal but wings/foils are illegal. When does this fence become a foil? As the rules are written they are surely illegal.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 1:30pm
I'm not and have never been an official measurer for any class, but I have been involved in contributing to class rules for Cherubs and ICs. So take that for what its worth.

If I were looking at a Merlin I would say that a fence becomes a foil when it has any lifting capability, and most especially if there is any control capability of changing the angle of incidence. So if its a small structure not extending beyond the likely boundary area of the flow round the blade, with a symmetrical section oriented as close as possible to the likely local water flow its a fence.

Looking at the Merlin rules I'd say for what little my opinion is worth that the dual purpose halyard bag/sail is a clear breach of G 1.2. If I were on a PC I wouldn't even bother to refer it to the CA. If the boat owner wished to appeal it then let him.

[later]
I've just looked at the rudder designs posted on the Merlin forum. I note
- structure which doesn't appear to extend beyond the boundary layer
- very low aspect ratio so very high drag if generating lift
- small total area
So unless there is some gear on the boat for changing the angle of incidence then I'd be quite happy with those - again for what little my opinion is worth.


Edited by JimC - 18 Nov 19 at 2:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 2:49pm
It would be easy to put a limit on projection of rudder fences and thus remove that area of 'interpretation', as it would be easy to prohibit that halyard bag or define it as a sail (which would outlaw it as it is more than one ply). But, in the case of a dev class*, rule changes can only be made with the approval of the membership as voted on at an AGM or EGM.

WRT the halyard bag, has this been discussed on the Merlin forum or their FB page?

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Edited by Sam.Spoons - 18 Nov 19 at 2:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 3:04pm
Its very easy to add extra rules for every single possible contingency, at which point you end up with class rules like the Formula one technical regulations. You can find them here https://www.fia.com/file/78015/download/26184, there's only 111 pages...

If I were on the Merlin committee, an eventuality rather more unlikely than Greenpeace deciding nuclear power is a good idea after all, I would suggest that the current rules are quite adequate about sails and fences, and that people who want to play word games can download apps onto their phones.

Edited by JimC - 18 Nov 19 at 3:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 3:08pm
True enough. In which case the CA should have the final say WRT to interpretation, if they say it ain't allowed (as they appear to) then it ain't allowed.

I've had a quick look at a number of pics on the Merlin FB page and none show anybody using such a device so it sounds like consensus is that either it is illegal or there is no performance benefit in using one.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by JimC

Its very easy to add extra rules for every single possible contingency, at which point you end up with class rules like the Formula one technical regulations. You can find them here https://www.fia.com/file/78015/download/26184, there's only 111 pages...

Great,  Wink bedtime reading, that'll get me off to sleep every night until next season......


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 18 Nov 19 at 3:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 3:10pm
To be fair if the Class Measurer says its ok then the Class Committee says it isnt then you have to go with the class committee (as they would trump the measurer). I am sure there is an official mechanism to get rule interpretations given and either approved or denied. Following on from that there should also be a mechanism to for rule changes to be suggested.....

I would rather hope they have all spoken to each other about said issue though, seems to indicate they may not have.....

As the OP knows the class have said the mod doesn't comply they are at risk of a protest from anyone feeling so minded.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 19 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons


It would be easy to put a limit on projection of rudder fences and thus remove that area of 'interpretation', as it would be easy to prohibit that halyard bag or define it as a sail (which would outlaw it as it is more than one ply). But, in the case of a dev class*, rule changes can only be made with the approval of the membership as voted on at an AGM or EGM.
WRT the halyard bag, has this been discussed on the Merlin forum or their FB page?
* or One Design



Apparently the RYA rules commitee have already ruled on this ( its a sail). And if I knew how to add the link, I would have done so
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