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Arresting the Decline and Fall of our Sport.

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DiscoBall View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 5:42pm
Rupert, I would have thought as a Firefly sailor you might have considered the rather more practical version of integration..? One of the regularly raised points about junior sailing is that not every kid wants to be stuck in a singlehander.

It's a very narrow take on integration to assume it means mixing oppies and adult classes. My home club has tried a junior start in club racing a few times over the years, with little perceptible success. Probably because it's not really integration - that would be getting them, and adult beginners, into suitable two-handers with experienced helms, over a long term.

Kids are quite happy having fun, making friends and learning with zero recourse to organised competitive sport. But I lean towards GRFs view anyway, that it's the adult side that has more potential for growth.




 
















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tink View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by iGRF

All this may be so, but aren't we missing the point, we've had years of youth engagement yet still the sport is declining?

It still makes my point that the folk we need to target are adults with time and disposable income, that's the only target group that would give sustainable growth and then maybe they in turn will pass it on to their kids, if kids is what you wish for and I still think they are a waste of effort.

Most sailors are part of a multi generation of sailors and likely to be long term sailors. Some adult dipping into sailing is not likely to be sailing in a few years time and so are the true waste of effort.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote cloudnine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 8:33pm
My Wife and I started sailing after our kids..
They go to a sailing school every week (very reasonably priced and they run sessions all winter which none of the local clubs do).  3 years ago.. Rather than waiting around in the car park staring at a phone.. we decided to start some sailing lessons.  At first I was a bit meh about it.  But once i started using spinnakers and faster boats it all started to get way more interesting.  We progressed through the various RYA courses pretty rapidly and then it kind of snowballed...
 My wife is now a qualified instructor and works for the sailing school.  We plan on racing our recently bought RS500 next year.  Meanwhile.. our eldest girls (8 and 11) sail and race RS Teras (they hold a certain disdain for opis  LOL) and our youngest (7)wants a Wazp from santa.

Im guessing we are the exception to the rule as our kids were the first generation racers of our family.. and our eldest is technically way more proficient than me.  
Maybe there's a lot to be said for encouraging non sailing parents onto the water rather than waiting around in the car park...
Do many clubs run adult training alongside junior training?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 8:46pm
Originally posted by cloudnine

Maybe there's a lot to be said for encouraging non sailing parents onto the water rather than waiting around in the car park...


I completely agree. I think coaching / training should be run at the same time or at least on the same day as club racing if support boats can cover both. The non-sailing parents could be turned into crews, then even helms and be out on the water rather than sitting on shore.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by tink

Some adult dipping into sailing is not likely to be sailing in a few years time and so are the true waste of effort.


Isn't that welcoming stance a self-fulfilling prophecy?  LOL

The muti-generational sailing families started somewhere...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by DiscoBall

Rupert, I would have thought as a Firefly sailor you might have considered the rather more practical version of integration..? One of the regularly raised points about junior sailing is that not every kid wants to be stuck in a singlehander.It's a very narrow take on integration to assume it means mixing oppies and adult classes. My home club has tried a junior start in club racing†a few times over the years, with little perceptible success. Probably because it's not really integration - that would be getting them, and adult beginners, into suitable two-handers with experienced helms, over a long term.
Kids are quite happy having fun, making friends and learning with zero recourse to organised competitive sport. But I lean towards GRFs view anyway, that it's the adult side that has more potential for growth.


This kind of drives home lots of what Iím trying to get across. Unconscious bias.....

Say some, many or even most Ďkids are happyí but donít sweep them all up in one generalisation.

Donít assume that the child should crew.

Edited by sargesail - 28 Nov 19 at 9:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by sargesail

Originally posted by DiscoBall

Rupert, I would have thought as a Firefly sailor you might have considered the rather more practical version of integration..? One of the regularly raised points about junior sailing is that not every kid wants to be stuck in a singlehander.It's a very narrow take on integration to assume it means mixing oppies and adult classes. My home club has tried a junior start in club racing†a few times over the years, with little perceptible success. Probably because it's not really integration - that would be getting them, and adult beginners, into suitable two-handers with experienced helms, over a long term.
Kids are quite happy having fun, making friends and learning with zero recourse to organised competitive sport. But I lean towards GRFs view anyway, that it's the adult side that has more potential for growth.


This kind of drives home lots of what Iím trying to get across. Unconscious bias.....

Say some, many or even most Ďkids are happyí but donít sweep them all up in one generalisation.

Donít assume that the child should crew.


This was just one way of doing things, showing that squads don't have to be evil. I didn't do squads, my kids didn't, even if one of them is now coaching them. Mine grew up doing all sorts of stuff, from racing as Firefly crews to buddying up with Junior group friends to race Fevas to racing Lightnings at age 12 and beating lots of adults.

I've never been a fan of squad systems. But now I'm seeing another side of it from a closer perspective. If done right, it will encourage long term participation in one sector of the sport. By being enjoyable, maybe even fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 10:02pm
Yes mine started crewing me (actually racing a 2000 four up as a family!). Iíve nothing against the approach. I just dislike Disco Ballís lumping together of all young sailors and the unconscious bias that the youngsters should crew.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 19 at 6:59am
I believe that keeping kids as long term sailors is about giving them a wide range of sailing experience which will deeply embedded their passion for the sport.

My daughter is in her third year (and last) of squads but also, crewed for adults, crewed for other kids, helmed other kids, races in the main adult fleet, coached younger kids, and sometimes just goofs off capsizing and has Ďfuní.

The key for kids is to have enough of them at a similar level so they have the friends and social side to it. It doesnít actually have to be that formal, just use social media to get everyone there at the same time. Let them mess around and then set up some informal racing. 

Yes but effort into adults but focus on families with kids, the adults may take it up or maybe just support or take PB2 and help out even more. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 19 at 11:34am
Originally posted by tink


Originally posted by iGRF

All this may be so, but aren't we missing the point, we've had years of youth engagement yet still the sport is declining?

It still makes my point that the folk we need to target are adults with time and disposable income, that's the only target group that would give sustainable growth and then maybe they in turn will pass it on to their kids, if kids is what you wish for and I still think they are a waste of effort.

Most sailors are part of a multi generation of sailors and likely to be long term sailors. Some adult dipping into sailing is not likely to be sailing in a few years time and so are the true waste of effort.


Here's the logic of why I think you're mistaken. Kids do it because they're forced to by parental 'guidance' so once they consider they're 'grown up' or get 'grown up' diversions they're gone.

Adults that make the decision to buy into it are more likely to continue, given the bit we don't do, which is train them as hard as we train bloody kids.
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