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Arresting the Decline and Fall of our Sport.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by sargesail

Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by sargesail

Originally posted by davidyacht

I was chatting with an Oppy parent last week, and as an outsider it would appear that the level of investment (pressure?) being made by some parents, particularly with personal coaching of their offspring will inevitably lead to the demise of the system, since this can only result in an unfair advantage for those without the wherewithal.
However I am unconvinced that simply moving the squaddies back to the clubs will result in a renaissance in club racing; as highlighted elsewhere junior club sailing programmes depend on volunteers who are hard to come by, whereas a traveling circus at least allows for a concentration of effort.


The problem is that there is nothing at the clubs for the junior and youth sailors who want to become expert!


Plenty going on for youth and junior at both the clubs I have been members of recently


Yes Burghfield is an exception.

Plenty and big participation at my old club Scaling Dam also
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by craiggo



Some of that needs to come from the kids motivating each other. Many club junior programs fail because they are pushed by the adults and not by the kids.


Coaching juniors is a fine balance, quite often ruined by the coaches ego.


BBC article here about adults "ruining" the youth experience. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42329564

I suspect the Buddying of new adult participants with an experienced member in practice would go the same way in a lot of cases.

Maybe we all need to get used to seeing people doing it badly (juniors included) and having a good time.


Edited by Sussex Lad - 28 Nov 19 at 5:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 3:53pm
Bowmoor, nice club, friendly people, good atmosphere in clubhouse too.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 3:50pm
In this case, they weren't racing, so average lap doesn't come into it. They were hosting an RYA training session. These move around to different clubs in the region.

But for the wider picture, for clubs willing and able to run short laps, average lap times do help a little with fast v slow. I'm surprised it isn't standard practice everywhere running multiple lap races. Certainly 20 years ago at Bowmoor I can remember being on the same course as Oppies. They gave as good as they got.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by Rupert

My comments about Oppies wasn't to do with speed, or handicap racing.

Just a fact. They are getting training in a boat in which adults don't fit, so how could this be done alongside adults?

Mind you, recently they had training at Bowmoor. The Aeros were also there, as were club members racing. So, the kids weren't at their own club, but they were sharing a stretch of water with adults, adding to what was happening at a club. Seems ok to me.


Bowmoor is a brilliant club that gets it! Has the expertise and interest to run average lap.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 3:34pm
I've seen it occur on the same racecourse at a few club's. Typically when kids enter the main club racing rather than just sticking to the dedicated junior races. Some club's just don't understand that the key is integration not segregation.

My daughter who is currently sailing Toppers changed club's because she didn't just want to sail small two lap triangles with 8-12 yr olds, she wanted to get involved in what she saw as proper racing.

Only difficulty is persuading others to do the same and build a good contingency of kids in the main fleets.

Some of that needs to come from the kids motivating each other. Many club junior programs fail because they are pushed by the adults and not by the kids.

Edited by craiggo - 28 Nov 19 at 3:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 3:33pm
My comments about Oppies wasn't to do with speed, or handicap racing.

Just a fact. They are getting training in a boat in which adults don't fit, so how could this be done alongside adults?

Mind you, recently they had training at Bowmoor. The Aeros were also there, as were club members racing. So, the kids weren't at their own club, but they were sharing a stretch of water with adults, adding to what was happening at a club. Seems ok to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by 423zero

The class racing aficionados appear to be most negative in everything, to much racing, bad behaviour towards younger sailors etc, I haven't seen any of this behaviour, PY racers must be deaf, blind and live in a dream.


How?

They’re not on the same racecourse.

Recent example at a BYS club. Port tack Solo to Starboard tack optimist: ‘get out of the way of my race.’
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 3:07pm
The class racing aficionados appear to be most negative in everything, to much racing, bad behaviour towards younger sailors etc, I haven't seen any of this behaviour, PY racers must be deaf, blind and live in a dream.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 19 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by DiscoBall

Classic... LOL Clap Ermm
Originally posted by sargesail

 <span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue", "Lucida Grande", "Segoe UI", Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif; : rgb251, 251, 253;">Juniors - No. The boats are too slow.</span>
Originally posted by Rupert

No, because adults don't class race Oppies.
Erm, variance of speed between a mirror and a feva? 1-2mph? Variance in speed between a kids bicycle and any dinghy...?
Lack of perspective, much? Speed and class racing are only really important to those steeped in the sport's accepted wisdoms. 
Originally posted by sargesail

often appalling attitude of the adults to the youngsters at on the racecourse
I'd agree with you on that one - have seen some very bizarre behaviour over the years. However, not suprising with the 'racing or nothing' culture we have - all those delicate egos on the line in the weekly club race. A move to less racing and more practice would be a healthy direction - seems to work fine for many other sports.


Classic. 🤣👏🤮. Lack of understanding, much.

Perhaps we can agree to differ about whether it’s possible to achieve mastery without class racing.

I hope you’ll be willing to listen to what my kids and others have told me about the difficulties of learning in mixed fleets: teras as boats behaving inherently differently from Opis. And, as rotomoulds, being driven with much less respect for avoiding contact.

Speed matters because an Opi takes twice as long to sail the course as an 800. Half as much extra as a 2000. More if tide is increasing the speed differential in VMG terms. And much, much more if there if it needs to bail after a capsize (and thus tying down patrol boats). Less extreme for other junior boats but still really important.

Speed is also important in other ways. My lad had no speed (nor enough size or weight in the boat) to avoid a Radial which bore away on the start line, hit him, and capsized him with its boom then mast on his mast as it heeled.

That’s the perspective which says it doesn’t work to mix them.
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