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zeon View Drop Down
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Posts: 316 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Laser Club Edition.
    Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 11:51am
Originally posted by ian.r.mcdonald

I am sure that most on this forum understand the new offer. But it would be useful to learn exactly the implications of the existing Laser being sold by them as a "racing" boat and the Club as a "sailing" boat.

Will this cause problems for clubs wishing to hold Laser racing events?

Nobody knows for sure at the moment how it will pan out. But as it stands the Racing boat with its WS plaque is a class legal boat which can be used in ILCA races from the Olympics down to club opens. The club boat is not a class legal boat but it’s unlikely ( but possible) that most clubs would stop you sailing it at club races. 
It’s all a bit of a mess , with lots of ball in the air. Will LPE start it’s own class for its own boats ? Will LPE be reinstated as a class builder ? Who is going to be the new builder/builders ? Will the Law Courts be involved? Are just some of the questions.
At the moment knowbody knows and we await further info from the ILCA. 
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zeon View Drop Down
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Posts: 316 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

LPE, PSA, PSJ etc have no interest in the health of the sport beyond where it might impact on profits.

Small volume manufacturers like Hartleys and RS are run by enthusiasts who actually sail the boats and care about dinghy sailing. This is clearly not the case with Laser.

I think you are very wrong to group PSA and PSA with LPE. They have very different company ethics.

I do agree about your point about RS , less so about Harleys. They have ridden rough shod over class associations in the past. 


Edited by zeon - 08 Nov 19 at 12:03pm
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ian.r.mcdonald View Drop Down
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Posts: 440 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 12:02pm
At least on Apolloduck they are now making it clear that it's not a class compliant boat and perhaps their website will also be made clearer when they return from their 8 days closure?
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ian.r.mcdonald View Drop Down
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Posts: 440 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by zeon



Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

LPE, PSA, PSJ etc have no interest in the health of the sport beyond where it might impact on profits.
Small volume manufacturers like Hartleys and RS are run by enthusiasts who actually sail the boats and care about dinghy sailing. This is clearly not the case with Laser.

I think you are very wrong to group PSA and PSA with LPE. They have very different company ethics.
I do agree about your point about RS , less so about Harleys. They have ridden rough shod over class associations in the past. 



Perhaps my feeling about the Hartleys is tempered because they are willing to discuss and explain their policies at the highest levels face to face. And I speak with experience of their " riding" in another class.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3406 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 12:30pm
Jimc, finding it difficult to see SA in anyway shape or form being in comparison with Y&Y, majority of it is schoolboy boring rubbish.
A couple of times I have thought about asking people not to refer to it on here, I personally know a couple of kids and youths who read Y&Y, wouldn't like them to access SA.
Robert
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

But the sailmaker certifies his own work (as does the builder, apart from an infrequent inspection by the LLCA). A 'Class Legal sail' with a button is £130 more than an identical 'Class Compliant' sail without. I wonder how much of that goes to ILCA?

Apparently the spars vary considerably from manufacturer to manufacturer too.

Its about £25 a sail for the button I also doubt there is any difference. The QA on genuine Laser sails always has been questionable. I remember checking a batch that was bought by our club members some years ago. The difference was massive between sails.

Does make you question how the 'replica' manufacturers can produce a better product with more consistent quality though eh.... (the last batch of replicas I checked were pretty much identical when laid out).

Spars it depends on how close the extrustion die is to being replaced. A mast from a new die will have thinner walls than a mast from a die that is needing replacement. 
Paul
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

From a recent 'Sail World' article :-

"The UK Laser Association notes that the Laser Club is a training boat and may not be eligible to race in events sanctioned by UKLA, however it may be a good option for sailing schools and resorts within LP's territory."

my italics

Right up to the point when those ex centre boats make their way into the wider market and are sold as class legal boats...up to the point where someone gets binned for having one at a UKLA event and then leaves the sport for good.
Paul
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3398 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 2:28pm
That's a definite possibility but LPE are entitled to build and sell the boats and ILCA are entitled to refuse them entry to their events. It's a mess but, in reality, I don't think that will be a problem, there's been so much hoo-ha most people buying a Laser to race at events will be aware of what has been going on.
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GarethT View Drop Down
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Posts: 714 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 4:36pm
The people I would most worry about are kids going into the Laser 4.7 and unwittingly buying one secondhand.

When my lad was in a 4.7 there were a number of instances of kids with non sailing parents getting pinged for replica kit, blissfully unaware it was a problem up until race day. It's bad enough having to stump up for a new bottom section!
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3398 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 19 at 4:39pm
Yup, that could be a problem, I'd those kids are almost certainly a product of an RYA centre so it's part of the centre's/RYA's remit to ensure parents know what not to buy if they, the trainers, are encouraging the kids to start racing the circuit. 

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 08 Nov 19 at 4:43pm
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