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More General Yardstick discussion

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Poll Question: Does your Club Vary the Yardstick and submit returns
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
2 [9.52%]
0 [0.00%]
3 [14.29%]
13 [61.90%]
3 [14.29%]
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CT249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 19 at 10:46am
My Laser's 28 and feels truly competitive against world champs in Masters. In some of my other classes, 30+ year old craft have finished 1-3 in national titles, one of them beating more than one Olympian to win more than one nationals. 

Edited by CT249 - 25 Oct 19 at 10:47am
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 19 at 11:51am
Age related numbers are not usually a simple matter of years but are relevant where classes (usually dev classes) have made fundamental changes, say from tin to carbon rigs, to allow pre-change boats to remain competitive. The Laser class have not made any which would result in a step change in performance until the mk2 sail and the carbon top mast (and they claim these don't improve performance only durability).
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Dougaldog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 19 at 2:39pm
At Netley we also apply a tidal correction factor, though as our tides are not as strong as those at HISC we apply a 'lighter touch' - ditto through our sailing Committee we are happy to amend PYs that seem blatantly wrong. This is not a case of giving a poor boat or sailor a leg up, but a recognition that our waters suit some boats better than others,
Regarding the use of a further correction factor for age amongst the development classes, we're aware of the need to be even handed, so for instance an older IC might well get the PY it would have had some years back. Rather than criticize the Merlins and 12s for trying to be inclusive for their older variants, there is an argument that maybe more classes should be aware of the large numbers of older boats out there. It could be age related, or simply something as simple of  a carbon spars v alloy or a pre-frp/frp split, or as has already been pointed out, if there was a major change adopted by  a class. 

Right now I'm trying to complete the book charting the history of the 5o5 and in the last few days, I've been looking at the changes in hull shapes (but in a bit more detail than in the recent 'One design or two' article). So here you have a fleet that has a clear point of change - boat numbers of 8400 marking the boundary between two quite distinct notions of the hull form. Now if there was class racing for the 5o5 at club level, would it be fair for someone with a good boat, but with a 83xx sail number - to be sailing off the same PY as the later hull forms? 
Ditto the Contender.... it is easy to say "sail a newer boat" and that is of course the answer, but it doesn't do much for inclusivity.

If the above is in part an argument that there might be a better way, would that be a bad thing.
BUT - it would need a top down, fully inclusive coming together of the stakeholders, innovators and wise minds to ensure that any possible solutions are actually 'better' that the current status quo. But this would cut across so many other topics, starting with 'where is the sport going' over the next 30 years (ie, up to 2050) that the likely outcome is that ...nothing will happen!

D
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tink View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 19 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by A2Z

Why have age related bonuses for Merlins and 12s but not other classes?  I appreciate the designs have evolved over the years, but letís be honest no 30 year old boat is truly competitive whether it be a Merlin, a Laser or a 420.

Spot on, if there was an age allowance there may be less unloved boats in the dinghy park, sailing would be more accessible and participation would be up. 

The issue will be separating the results in the returns, this year the list was full of notes saying Ďplease separate different versions in returnsí (paraphrasing) 
Tink
https://tinkboats.wordpress.com/

http://proasail.blogspot.com
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ian.r.mcdonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 19 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by A2Z

Why have age related bonuses for Merlins and 12s but not other classes? †I appreciate the designs have evolved over the years, but letís be honest no 30 year old boat is truly competitive whether it be a Merlin, a Laser or a 420.


Because development classes have very significant changes in hull shape etc.


Whilst classes like Ospreys have boats 25 years plus old ( with a new rig and smartening) which are still winning championships

Edited by ian.r.mcdonald - 25 Oct 19 at 4:56pm
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 19 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by A2Z

letís be honest no 30 year old boat is truly competitive whether it be a Merlin, a Laser or a 420.

Current world champion GP14 is 25 years old. Another 25 year old boat was top 5.

Both were home built too........
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