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So, just how important is a Boats PY yardstick?
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: So, just how important is a Boats PY yardstick?
    Posted: 12 Nov 19 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by Mark Aged 42

[QUOTE=Rupert]Are Solos and Lasers regularly sailed against each other? If so, could it be that the increase in Solo speed is forcing the Laser to look slower?

Fully agree, Solos are extremely had to beat in light winds. 

Beating and running courses I wouldn't expect there to be much in it. On a reach Solos have problems! The laser planes sooner and faster.
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ian.r.mcdonald View Drop Down
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Posts: 440 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 19 at 6:54pm
Add Supernova to the list of similar performance differences.

It's in the marginal stuff reaching where nailing a PY down is almost impossible. Some classes up on the plane and others (me!) sat waving goodbye.

Handicap that!
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yottiemad View Drop Down
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Posts: 13 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yottiemad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 19 at 9:47pm
I must agree. the only time I seem to be able to win in my so slow on H/C is with windward leeward courses.
the club like to set lots of close reaching legs normally with a lack of beats and runs which sees the RS 300's and streakers just do a horizon job.
the club has multiple cat sailors who enjoy a good reach around when it is windy.so they ask for reachy courses.
luckily for the rest of the country this means that as the club sends in py returns the result is that the 300's and streakers are shown to perform better. I do hope both show they are getting faster and thier py drops accordingly
this has been mentioned before, but here the lasers from 4.7 to rooster are mostly sailed by beginners which the py returns will show as the boats getting slower.
It is good to get on the water but can h/c racing really be taken seriously.
we had a course set which after 40 mins with beats and runs, myself in a solo had a streaker either side of me both with lightweight helms with 2 legs close reaching to go. the wind increased sufficent that they both got on the plane and I did not.
they both beat me on handicap at the finish despite being adjacent with me less than 10 mins before.
that is handicap racing.
YOTTIEMAD
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tink View Drop Down
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Posts: 788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 6:50am
Originally posted by yottiemad

I must agree. the only time I seem to be able to win in my so slow on H/C is with windward leeward courses.
the club like to set lots of close reaching legs normally with a lack of beats and runs which sees the RS 300's and streakers just do a horizon job.
the club has multiple cat sailors who enjoy a good reach around when it is windy.so they ask for reachy courses.
luckily for the rest of the country this means that as the club sends in py returns the result is that the 300's and streakers are shown to perform better. I do hope both show they are getting faster and thier py drops accordingly
this has been mentioned before, but here the lasers from 4.7 to rooster are mostly sailed by beginners which the py returns will show as the boats getting slower.
It is good to get on the water but can h/c racing really be taken seriously.
we had a course set which after 40 mins with beats and runs, myself in a solo had a streaker either side of me both with lightweight helms with 2 legs close reaching to go. the wind increased sufficent that they both got on the plane and I did not.
they both beat me on handicap at the finish despite being adjacent with me less than 10 mins before.
that is handicap racing.

My club is a polar opposite. We mainly sail in non planning conditions and it is hard for Streakers to beat the Solos on the water let alone on handicap. The fleet is usually about 6 Solo, 4 Streaker and and smattering of various lasers and OKs. 


Looking at past results this has been like this for at least 5 years. Despite being frequently beaten the Streaker sailors don’t all sell up and buy Solos. People in general choose the boat they want to sail for the boat not the handicap.


Sadly when it is blowing the Solos don’t come out and play and the Streakers have a great time. Perhaps the odd great race is enough for the streakers
Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3398 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 8:56am
Racing a Blaze inland is much the same as those Streakers, the boat shines in a breeze, especially when it can stretch it's legs properly. Around the cans on a small lake is not it's natural habitat but it's a boat I hugely enjoy sailing, even in the light stuff, so I'll stick with it for now and put off joining our very strong Solo fleet for a while.
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Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 10:09am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Racing a Blaze inland is much the same as those Streakers, the boat shines in a breeze, especially when it can stretch it's legs properly. Around the cans on a small lake is not it's natural habitat but it's a boat I hugely enjoy sailing, even in the light stuff, so I'll stick with it for now and put off joining our very strong Solo fleet for a while.

I found that too, it needed a bot of space to stretch its legs. Short tacking on a small shifty pond was challenging at best but a lot of fun at times.
Paul
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 1:18pm
How do the Blaze and Supernova compare in lighter weather?
Is it likely to perform to its number i sub-planing conditions?
How does it go against two handers in the same PY ballpark?
Generally reasonable size estuary courses, so relatively flat water and not a short tacking river scenario or umpteen laps of a fishpond.

And are the older cheap ones completely outclassed by the newer ones?
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ian.r.mcdonald View Drop Down
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Posts: 440 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 1:52pm
There is a significant difference at my club level between old and new design Supernova, to the extent that a PY difference is applied. But as ever, generally the fastest sailors buy the new boats so the difference may be less than expected. I think the Blaze looks great, I am just totally confused by the number of models ( am I right?)

Edited by ian.r.mcdonald - 13 Nov 19 at 1:54pm
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 3:20pm
I think the Blaze looks great, I am just totally confused by the number of models ...

Visit the CA website or better still drop in to an Open and simply talk with owners.  There are three sail sizes 8.8 / 10.4 / 11.5  ... all of which can sit on the standard regular spars.  They have the Fire / Blaze / Halo names that distinguish them rather than something like Blaze 8.8 / Blaze 10.4 / Blaze 11.5 as say the Aero and similar do.   The vast majority do use the main 10.4 'Blaze' sail for 95% of the time.    This allows lightweights and othrs to still get a good fast and controlled sail in real breeze and for heavy weights to enjoy the lighter stuff rather that sulk on the shore !   There is total freedom over toestraps, wing trampolines and sheeting system but just about everything else is fairly tightly controlled.

Despite the numbers recession generally in dinghy sailing the Blaze (family) is still steadily growing with around 50+ at each Nationals  and 35+ at Inland championships althouth this year that too exceeded 50 entries.  

It revels in medium / high winds but with good technique (and this can take a bit of time for many new to the class) it is also no slouch in the lighter stuff and on more restricted waters either. A bit of a cult following and the people who sail them is what has made the class popular and one that continues to attract newbies each season.... just like all the other great classes .... of course  ! Wink


Edited by Cirrus - 13 Nov 19 at 3:21pm
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3398 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 3:26pm
There is only on model of Blaze, like many classes the manufacturer has changed a couple of times and 'improvements' have been made to deck layout and other none speed enhancing bits but the only really major changes has been from polyester to epoxy circa #800 and the carbon mast which can be retrofitted to any boat.

Old boats are like old boats from any class, they are unlikely to be as fast as a new boat but a good old-un is better than a rough newer boat. And at club/regional level the driver makes much more difference.

I has a Supernova for a short while and didn't get on with it but they are popular enough to suggest that there ain't much wrong with them.

Blaze in the light? Well swings and roundabouts, it's fairly slow to tack and sticky off wind but in those conditions finding what little wind there is counts for more, when it gets to marginal planing the Blaze planes early and fast so a little puff will see you leaving the Solos in your wake. 

TBH I'm happy to keep up with the Lasers and Solos but they are all much better sailors then I am these days (25+ years racing Raceboards is not the best training for dinghy racing). OTOH our ex Supernova, Blaze convert has won a couple of series in the two years he's had the Blaze so it's definitely doable.


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 13 Nov 19 at 3:27pm
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Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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