Laurent Giles 'Jolly Boat' Exeter |
J24 (Sail No. 4239) Dartmouth |
29er GBR 074 Tynemouth |
List classes of boat for sale |
So, just how important is a Boats PY yardstick? |
Post Reply | Page <1 2627282930 34> |
Author | ||
CT249
Far too distracted from work Joined: 08 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Topic: So, just how important is a Boats PY yardstick? Posted: 06 Nov 19 at 9:08am |
|
Oooh, THAT is a nice find of yours! Obviously a Wyllie sketch, with what looks like Sea Serpent on the right and one of the original cruder boats top left.
|
||
423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Nov 19 at 9:13am | |
Probably someone on CVRDA owns one of these.
What number does Fuller system generate? Edited by 423zero - 06 Nov 19 at 9:24am |
||
Robert
|
||
Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Nov 19 at 9:35am | |
<insufficient data error>
|
||
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
||
tink
Really should get out more Joined: 23 Jan 16 Location: North Hants Online Status: Offline Posts: 788 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Nov 19 at 8:13pm | |
Thanks, sounds like an awesome class of boats, well ahead of its time. As for building it is such a pity there isn’t an accurate way to establish a handicap for new boats, might start a thread about how we achieve that.
|
||
Tink
https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
||
Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Nov 19 at 8:36pm | |
Brilliant Idea, why has nobody thought of it before?
|
||
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
||
CT249
Far too distracted from work Joined: 08 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Nov 19 at 9:57pm | |
Doesn't it depend on what we call "accurate"??? The Peaky number works quite well. A naval architect and designer of successful Cherubs down here has also worked out a similar formula but if I recall correctly, but it includes calcs for spinnakers, traps, etc.
But the problem is that like similar simple systems for yachts or multis, there will always be some bandits and some losers, and identifying and correcting for that is a huge problem. We see lots of illogical abuse now - what would it be like if correcting the ratings for bandits and losers involved not only calculating their on-the-water performance, but also over-ruling the "rating" at the same time? The funny thing is that the loudest voice against the system and for a "Peaky rule" here is the person who wants the yardsticks adjusted to go the opposite way that Peaky's formula reckons they should. That alone may be a good example of the issues. And of course, the first time someone sits down and tries to create a rule beater we'll see a whole new set of issues.
Edited by CT249 - 06 Nov 19 at 9:59pm |
||
iGRF
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Nov 19 at 10:31pm | |
If you could see beyond the corks around your bush hat now and again, you'd see that the Peaky/Fuller no has the Laser exactly where it was when the formula was drawn up around 5 years ago, before it got 'varied' by I assume the influence of our "great lakes' with a small g series. If it were down to me it would have an additional calculation that fixed the Laser at 1000 and the formula pivoted everything about it. Logically something has to be fixed and stable, the way things are here the system is now feeding off it's own errors and leaving the minor classes aside. Anyway aside from that I did enjoy reading your piece on the historical women of the 1890's Raters, well researched, I couldn't believe it was the same hysterical convict that posts rubbish here, well done for that at least, very good. Edited by iGRF - 06 Nov 19 at 10:36pm |
||
423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 06 Nov 19 at 10:57pm | |
Yes, I read that too, very good.
|
||
Robert
|
||
tink
Really should get out more Joined: 23 Jan 16 Location: North Hants Online Status: Offline Posts: 788 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Nov 19 at 6:53am | |
This fixation with fixing the Laser would serve no real purpose Many clubs have split fleets and so Laser not really of interest to someone in the fast handicap fleet Some clubs still have Laser fleets so again very little interest to many. As you say there is an extra calculation generating the PY which adds extra error (rounding up etc not the maths) Further inaccuracies would develop because the the Laser speed has no relationship with anything real so there would be small errors in the corrected time. In time if the laser dropped from the Olympics, kids take up Aero or whatever and the Laser is sailed by newbies and old blokes, in old boats the laser will ‘slow down’ |
||
Tink
https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
||
iGRF
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Nov 19 at 10:37am | |
Other than stabilising the world of those of us that buy boats with a performance level similar to the Laser but nicer to sail who then compete week in week out with pals in their laser, only to find after a couple of years that is no longer possible because of forces beyond our immediate control. It is also illogical to those who don't even try and understand what the handicap system is, how it works, why it works the way it does and or why it is the only system at our disposal, most of whom cannot understand why a boat that has been around for years and is physically faster over the water now than at any time in its past, is being rated as slower and slower each year for the past five years. This is precisely one of the reasons folk get so mad and confused at the illogical nature of the system. So no, I fundamentally disagree and believe that until one boat is fixed the anomalies will go on getting worse and worse as the system thrashes around it's statistics with nothing fixed in any sense of actual reality. |
||
Post Reply | Page <1 2627282930 34> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |