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So, just how important is a Boats PY yardstick?
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: So, just how important is a Boats PY yardstick?
    Posted: 24 Oct 19 at 6:12am
A rating where handicap is combined with yardstick looks to me like combining two flawed ideas and hoping to get a perfect answer from it. Love the concept, but would expect less accuracy than we have now.

I would like to see published figures for open sea, estuary, lake and river, which whilst still inaccurate would be better than poor old Bob at a single club taking all the flack.

As for boat length, if waterline length is all, why aren't more boats longer? The International Canoe is the longest S/H, I guess, in widespread use, and isn't a Laser equivalent. A lightweight 18' singlehander with a modest sail area should carry a variety of weight well, and say 6m of sail handleable by all, and no disadvantage as waterline length is king.

Yet we see the Aero doing well, shorter and faster than the current most popular boat.
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Posts: 749 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 19 at 7:56am
I do agree with Rupert that combining handicap and yardstick is a bad idea. I like the idea of different PYs for differnt stretches of water, but this is in essence what my club does anyway by tweaking the RYA PYs because we sail on a lake so its harder to sail a RS200 to handicap than a Solo for example.

On the Aero - sorry but I do think that the handicap is way wrong on that one. No idea if its because of GRFs conspiracy theory of the dark forces favouring the big manufacturers or because its a boat that is sailed by many and the result is a PY that is very kind to the good guys that then travel to events!?!
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 19 at 8:13am
Originally posted by Rupert

But everyone complains how bad and inefficient the Laser sail is, so size isn't all we should look at. Maybe hard sails on slow boats are just window dressing? After all, the Aero is short and is quicker with a soft sail.

The Mk2 sail is much better than the old sail Rupert, it has been a step change for people and not just the 'new sail' boost (in my experience).

As for the Aero 7 it is significantly lighter and with a full carbon rig. Comparing it to the new Laser Arc or C7 rigs would be a better comparison IMO.
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Posts: 749 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 19 at 8:17am
With regard the use of fully batterned mains on singlehanders - I do agree that these are a fad and personally I believe that a sail with a top battern or two that are full with the rest of the sail soft is the best compromise, especially for lighter winds and shifty lakes!
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3398 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 19 at 8:59am
Yes, that's exactly what the Blaze discovered back in the day, the 'Blaze X' is a nice sail, the original FB Blaze rig was, by all accounts, a monster in any breeze.

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 24 Oct 19 at 8:59am
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Posts: 749 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 19 at 10:05am
In the H2 the top battens are hard and the lower three are very soft, especially at the luff which helps a lot with making it easier to handle but my personal preference would have been for the lower part of the sail to be soft but then it was not my call!!
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Posts: 749 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 19 at 10:08am
Back to GRFs OP though - its probably not the answer that you want to hear but I do believe that the only way to get the PY system (as imperfect as it is) to work is to just get enough people out racing in the boat in order to get the data together to demonstrate what the PY should be. Yes that is hard work and yes that might put some people off but to me it was a challenge I have enjoyed trying to crack with the H2 in part because the alternative of sailing an Aero just made me want to give up on the sport.
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Posts: 6496 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 19 at 10:23am
It's not the system per se that is in question, it's the route into the system. There can never be a 'prefect' system and as it is if used the way it's designed to be it's probably as good as you''ll get. But that doesn't help in cases where the clubs don't or won't issue their own variations to the system, nor does it give any recourse to what could be a more factual definition of a given boats performance according to measurement and weight.

What I'm suggesting is not to alter anything that currently is in place, just another reference or resource that a club could simply dial into. Enter the vessels length, width, sail size, designated crew weight and other devices (trapeze, swing seats, kite, foils) then it spits out a number. That number would always be constant unless any of the measurements change. The number would be scaled with the Laser full rig stats set as the base line.

We can do this now, because we have computers, the internet, it can be transparent.
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Dougaldog View Drop Down
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Posts: 356 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 19 at 11:11am
All,
whilst this is just what the forum needed, an interesting topic that allows everybody to 'pile in' can we all be careful about 'naming names' of those who are not just innocent but have no idea that they are being discussed on an open platform.....

D
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 19 at 11:31am
".....in part because the alternative of sailing an Aero just made me want to give up on the sport"

That is rather harsh.  The Aero is a great boat even if not for you .. or me for that matter although I have enjoyed it on a number of occasions and hope to again if offered the chance in the future.  I doubt it was intended to monopolise all segments of the future market and replace all other alternatives !

'Dissing' this class or that class in passing whether intentionally or not just distracts from the subject in play and does tend to drive a significant number away from these sort of discussions.   They might 'lurk' for a while but then they may well find better things to do with their time after a while as well.


Edited by Cirrus - 24 Oct 19 at 11:32am
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