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So, just how important is a Boats PY yardstick?

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eric_c View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 19 at 5:58am
Originally posted by Rupert

Are Solos and Lasers regularly sailed against each other? If so, could it be that the increase in Solo speed is forcing the Laser to look slower?

Mind, does it make any difference to the stats if boats share races? Always confuses me, that one.

A Solo is not much slower than a Laser in some conditions, so a Solo getting a good start and taking a good route up the beat can easily be among the Lasers. Or if you've got 5 lasers, it takes time for them to all round a mark, enabling a Solo to catch up.
A PY race is not a time trial unless the boats are well spread.
The solitary fast boat gets away, the pack slow each other down, the slow boat is just behind the pack.

One influence is that ISTM races are generally getting shorter?
More compact courses, more interaction, faster boats less able to break away?
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 19 at 10:28pm
Are Solos and Lasers regularly sailed against each other? If so, could it be that the increase in Solo speed is forcing the Laser to look slower?

Mind, does it make any difference to the stats if boats share races? Always confuses me, that one.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 19 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by CarbonCopy3459

Coming back to the 'drift' of the Laser PY, ten years ago all the handy 2 handed helms had a laser for when they had no crew. Now, at our club, every single one has an Aero or D Zero instead. The keen single handers ditto. The Laser seems to have become an entry level single hander and after a couple of years of practice people largely move on to an *ero. The drop in average standard of sailor is reflected in the results at (our) club level and in the PY.

...


The Laser was 1078 in 2003, 1080 in 2010, 1090 in 2015 and 1098 last year.
So the drift downwards would seem not to be influenced by the 'ero.

Possibly the average age of the boats and helms has more to do with it, I recall the numbers going through 100k when I was at school, there are a lot of old boats around and a lot of  'Masters' sailing them. Maybe they are statistically more likely to be sailed on different water than they used to be?
Maybe the correct PY number is just always uncertain by more than 2% anyway?

Personally at my club, I don't think they're an easy boat to win trophies with.
If you think they're a bandit, just buy one, they are not expensive.

BTW over the same time frame, the Solo seems to have gone from 1155 to 1143, 1% in the other direction. Has the average Solo racing improved? Maybe.
But 3% very often won't shift you many places in most club PY races.

Longer term, ISTR the Solo was 122 in the early 80s and the Laser was 114?
Laser 93.4% of Solo, now 96%.
But in those days many Solos were racing with much lower technology than today.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CarbonCopy3459 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 19 at 6:41pm
Quite. No new Lasers at our club (the only place I feel I can speak about with any confidence) but lots of new Aeros and Zeros.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 19 at 6:33pm
Where are you getting your numbers, donít reflect what I am seeing. Are they worldwide sales?
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 19 at 6:26pm
Combined sales of dzero and aero less than 10% of Laser sales.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CarbonCopy3459 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 19 at 5:53pm
Coming back to the 'drift' of the Laser PY, ten years ago all the handy 2 handed helms had a laser for when they had no crew. Now, at our club, every single one has an Aero or D Zero instead. The keen single handers ditto. The Laser seems to have become an entry level single hander and after a couple of years of practice people largely move on to an *ero. The drop in average standard of sailor is reflected in the results at (our) club level and in the PY.

Perhaps instead of the PY reflecting the average speed across the whole fleet (because some fleets are more average than others) the PY could be calculated from the front end of the fleet (first sq root of the number of entrants perhaps). Yes, this would reduce the number of samples but might give a PY more indicative of the boats potential. 

This doesn't do anything about the other moans ( windiness and waviness quotients) but might stop the Laser drifting 20 points one way while the RS300 drifts 20 points the other and give a 'fairer' reflection of actual versus potential performance.

I'm not sure how one might test this. I'm sure the pyag have considered this sort of thing so there is probably a drawback that I haven't considered. I'm sure someone will point out what it is shortly!  Smile

CC
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 19 at 9:04pm
LOL That could be it.......

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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 19 at 8:59pm
A bandit is generally some sort of cheat where as a pirate would want to come close to you engage in his business and therefore engage in some kind of match racing I would presume 
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 19 at 8:59pm
Because they aaaarnt weee laddy
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