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So, just how important is a Boats PY yardstick?

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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 8:56am
Racing a Blaze inland is much the same as those Streakers, the boat shines in a breeze, especially when it can stretch it's legs properly. Around the cans on a small lake is not it's natural habitat but it's a boat I hugely enjoy sailing, even in the light stuff, so I'll stick with it for now and put off joining our very strong Solo fleet for a while.
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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tink View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 19 at 6:50am
Originally posted by yottiemad

I must agree. the only time I seem to be able to win in my so slow on H/C is with windward leeward courses.
the club like to set lots of close reaching legs normally with a lack of beats and runs which sees the RS 300's and streakers just do a horizon job.
the club has multiple cat sailors who enjoy a good reach around when it is windy.so they ask for reachy courses.
luckily for the rest of the country this means that as the club sends in py returns the result is that the 300's and streakers are shown to perform better. I do hope both show they are getting faster and thier py drops accordingly
this has been mentioned before, but here the lasers from 4.7 to rooster are mostly sailed by beginners which the py returns will show as the boats getting slower.
It is good to get on the water but can h/c racing really be taken seriously.
we had a course set which after 40 mins with beats and runs, myself in a solo had a streaker either side of me both with lightweight helms with 2 legs close reaching to go. the wind increased sufficent that they both got on the plane and I did not.
they both beat me on handicap at the finish despite being adjacent with me less than 10 mins before.
that is handicap racing.

My club is a polar opposite. We mainly sail in non planning conditions and it is hard for Streakers to beat the Solos on the water let alone on handicap. The fleet is usually about 6 Solo, 4 Streaker and and smattering of various lasers and OKs. 


Looking at past results this has been like this for at least 5 years. Despite being frequently beaten the Streaker sailors donít all sell up and buy Solos. People in general choose the boat they want to sail for the boat not the handicap.


Sadly when it is blowing the Solos donít come out and play and the Streakers have a great time. Perhaps the odd great race is enough for the streakers

Tink
https://tinkboats.wordpress.com/

http://proasail.blogspot.com
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yottiemad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yottiemad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 19 at 9:47pm
I must agree. the only time I seem to be able to win in my so slow on H/C is with windward leeward courses.
the club like to set lots of close reaching legs normally with a lack of beats and runs which sees the RS 300's and streakers just do a horizon job.
the club has multiple cat sailors who enjoy a good reach around when it is windy.so they ask for reachy courses.
luckily for the rest of the country this means that as the club sends in py returns the result is that the 300's and streakers are shown to perform better. I do hope both show they are getting faster and thier py drops accordingly
this has been mentioned before, but here the lasers from 4.7 to rooster are mostly sailed by beginners which the py returns will show as the boats getting slower.
It is good to get on the water but can h/c racing really be taken seriously.
we had a course set which after 40 mins with beats and runs, myself in a solo had a streaker either side of me both with lightweight helms with 2 legs close reaching to go. the wind increased sufficent that they both got on the plane and I did not.
they both beat me on handicap at the finish despite being adjacent with me less than 10 mins before.
that is handicap racing.

YOTTIEMAD
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ian.r.mcdonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 19 at 6:54pm
Add Supernova to the list of similar performance differences.

It's in the marginal stuff reaching where nailing a PY down is almost impossible. Some classes up on the plane and others (me!) sat waving goodbye.

Handicap that!
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 19 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by Mark Aged 42

[QUOTE=Rupert]Are Solos and Lasers regularly sailed against each other? If so, could it be that the increase in Solo speed is forcing the Laser to look slower?

Fully agree, Solos are extremely had to beat in light winds. 

Beating and running courses I wouldn't expect there to be much in it. On a reach Solos have problems! The laser planes sooner and faster.
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tink View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 19 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by Mark Aged 42

Originally posted by Rupert

Are Solos and Lasers regularly sailed against each other? If so, could it be that the increase in Solo speed is forcing the Laser to look slower?

I regularly race my Laser with Solos. 
I would say in light winds the Solo is a faster boat, possibly because the fully battened sail is more stable than the Lasers rag. On Sunday I regularly had no power as my boat rolled around on the wake of others, whereas the Solos remained powered up.
When the wind gets up, the Laser is possibly quicker, especially if there is broad reach which allows a Laser to really go quick, assuming a lot of activity from the helmsman.
So, same old conclusion - some you win, some you lose.

Fully agree, Solos are extremely had to beat in light winds. 
Tink
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http://proasail.blogspot.com
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Mark Aged 42 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Aged 42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 19 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Are Solos and Lasers regularly sailed against each other? If so, could it be that the increase in Solo speed is forcing the Laser to look slower?

I regularly race my Laser with Solos. 
I would say in light winds the Solo is a faster boat, possibly because the fully battened sail is more stable than the Lasers rag. On Sunday I regularly had no power as my boat rolled around on the wake of others, whereas the Solos remained powered up.
When the wind gets up, the Laser is possibly quicker, especially if there is broad reach which allows a Laser to really go quick, assuming a lot of activity from the helmsman.
So, same old conclusion - some you win, some you lose.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 19 at 8:01am
Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by Rupert

Are Solos and Lasers regularly sailed against each other? If so, could it be that the increase in Solo speed is forcing the Laser to look slower?

Mind, does it make any difference to the stats if boats share races? Always confuses me, that one.


A very interesting point. At my current club the Laser is in slow fleet but in others it was in the medium fleet. How does the PY calculation allow for the fact that they are not mixed fleets. Being the fastest boat it the fleet has to be an advantage, clean air etc.

Just shows what a complex job it is.

Definitely, at a couple of the Winter Events the PY splits are different. At Grafham the D-Zero is the slowest boat in the medium fleet. As a result very difficult to get a good lane and clear air and the boat rarely troubles the chocolates.

At the Oxford Blue it was the fastest boat in the 'fleet' and as a result clear air and much better showing (certainly within the fleet).
Paul
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tink View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 19 at 6:13am
Originally posted by eric_c


Originally posted by Rupert

Are Solos and Lasers regularly sailed against each other? If so, could it be that the increase in Solo speed is forcing the Laser to look slower?

Mind, does it make any difference to the stats if boats share races? Always confuses me, that one.
A Solo is not much slower than a Laser in some conditions, so a Solo getting a good start and taking a good route up the beat can easily be among the Lasers. Or if you've got 5 lasers, it takes time for them to all round a mark, enabling a Solo to catch up.
A PY race is not a time trial unless the boats are well spread.
The solitary fast boat gets away, the pack slow each other down, the slow boat is just behind the pack.
One influence is that ISTM races are generally getting shorter?
More compact courses, more interaction, faster boats less able to break away?


ISTM ?
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tink View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 19 at 6:07am
Originally posted by Rupert

Are Solos and Lasers regularly sailed against each other? If so, could it be that the increase in Solo speed is forcing the Laser to look slower?

Mind, does it make any difference to the stats if boats share races? Always confuses me, that one.


A very interesting point. At my current club the Laser is in slow fleet but in others it was in the medium fleet. How does the PY calculation allow for the fact that they are not mixed fleets. Being the fastest boat it the fleet has to be an advantage, clean air etc.

Just shows what a complex job it is.
Tink
https://tinkboats.wordpress.com/

http://proasail.blogspot.com
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