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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 Oct 19 at 10:29am
This got me thinking, 


Why are foiling Moths still based around the super narrow hulls that were the final development of the lowriders? I guess weight and availability of moulds high have something to do with it but is there another reason? I'd have thought an easier to sail platform like the Skeeter would make the boat more accessible to more 'normal' sailors?


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 15 Oct 19 at 10:36am
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They are all down to the aero package. The smaller hulls are much more aerodynamic than what was in the pic. 

A lot of the AC sailors have had their moths in the wind testing tunnels alongside cup parts. Some of those guys have all sorts of fairings and capping on their boats that is not standard. 

I know the atomic moth was recently designed almost purely through CAD to make it as aero as possible when flying.
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Posts: 6649 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 19 at 11:38am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

I'd have thought an easier to sail platform like the Skeeter would make the boat more accessible to more 'normal' sailors?

Minimum drag in displacement sailing is absolutely critical to early take off. And why would they want to make it accessible to 'normal' sailors? Its a development class so only performance counts.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3398 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 19 at 11:55am
Yeah, that's pretty much what I though, didn't want to put words into peoples mouths. 

TBF if it's possible to get an Oppi foiling then anything is possible  Big smile

(How do we upload images......)






Edited by Sam.Spoons - 15 Oct 19 at 11:58am
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Posts: 749 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 19 at 1:56pm
I think as others have said foiling is a bit Marmite. If it dings your bell then you want to get airborne quickly and reduce drag once flying. I guess there is a market for boats that are easy(ier) to foil which I suspect people will use when they first learn to foil or whilst on holiday in the Med for a bit of fun but I do not see much of a market for the kind of thing in your OP as a result. Personally have no desire to foil but have no issues with others doing so if it makes them happy!
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 19 at 3:37pm
Really looking forward to having a go in a Skeeter one day. Must be the scow sailor in me!
The other stable way to go is a cat, of course.

Edited by Rupert - 15 Oct 19 at 3:38pm
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3398 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 19 at 3:43pm
Foiling's not for me either, too narrow a wind range (a bit like Formula Windsurfing compared to Raceboards) and I'm no longer agile enough. 

I reckon you won't get airborne much quicker than the Oppi, 5 knots is lift off speed!
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Posts: 788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 19 at 4:41pm
Actually to get foiling quickly is not the answer if you are after speed. You actually want to get going pretty fast in displacement mode before you get full lift from the foils that way the foils can be as small and as low drag as possible to reward you with speed. You can obviously control the angle of incidence but with too much that can become draggy.

Given big enough foils you could foil a Solo (have the CA considered that, might need to loose 3kg) but doubtful that top speed would increase. 

The most successful foilers I have seen are the windsurfers, they can adjust power input with different size sails and lower the drag as the wind gets up with smaller sails and generally have a good useable wind range. 

So you want the lowest possible aero and hydro drag, the hydro comes down to low weight both boat and sailor and low drag which tends to lead to hull forms requiring a more skilled crew. Obviously if you’re pretending to be the ultimate sailing contest you can have aerospace computers doing the controls. 

Somewhere there is study that a black coloured moth with be so many boat lengths quicker over a mile or something. This is to do with the heat of the boat as it interacts with the airflow - amazing that someone got funding for that bit of research.  
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3398 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 19 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by tink

Actually to get foiling quickly is not the answer if you are after speed. You actually want to get going pretty fast in displacement mode before you get full lift from the foils that way the foils can be as small and as low drag as possible to reward you with speed. You can obviously control the angle of incidence but with too much that can become draggy.

Makes sense

Given big enough foils you could foil a Solo (have the CA considered that, might need to loose 3kg) but doubtful that top speed would increase.

Naw, 3kg won't make a blind bit of difference Wink  

The most successful foilers I have seen are the windsurfers, they can adjust power input with different size sails and lower the drag as the wind gets up with smaller sails and generally have a good useable wind range.

And change the foils too (or have a quiver of boards). As an aside were there any foiling boards at Weymouth? How did they do?

So you want the lowest possible aero and hydro drag, the hydro comes down to low weight both boat and sailor and low drag which tends to lead to hull forms requiring a more skilled crew. Obviously if you’re pretending to be the ultimate sailing contest you can have aerospace computers doing the controls. 

Somewhere there is study that a black coloured moth with be so many boat lengths quicker over a mile or something. This is to do with the heat of the boat as it interacts with the airflow - amazing that someone got funding for that bit of research.  

Thanks tink, interesting stuff.
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Posts: 440 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 19 at 5:06pm
I did try foiling in my Solo but the rudder wouldn't fit through the transom port.

And of course you all know that I would be anti a rule change to allow enough clearance!
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