New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Dare I even discuss a new class?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Dare I even discuss a new class?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4567>
Author
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8338
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 19 at 8:53am
Captain Sparrow's post makes a lot of sense. More power, even within the current rule set, could just give you the nudge you need. If you can get planing at a point where the lasers are still displacement, you'll reduce the wind strength you need to beat them. That then gives on confidence in the boat, and a virtuous circle begins.

And developing a new sail, even a new rig, is cheaper than a whole boat!

And go visit other 3.7s for some mutual coaching/practice.
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
Back to Top
CT249 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 08 Jul 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 302
Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 19 at 9:04am
Originally posted by rich96

So - you want a new craft that will compete/beat the Contenders, is
light, easy to launch recover etc ?

Perhaps start with a lightweight (20kg) hull. retracting daggerboard, approx 3.8m long, dispense with the wiggle stick and use a fixed 'mini rudder', set the rig from a track that slides fore and aft, dispense with those silly wire shrouds, install a flexible joint between the mast base and the track, dispense with those silly toe straps, stand more on it than in it, use your bodyweight to support the rig, cant the rig to windward, use feet and rig movement to steer

Give it a suitable name - perhaps after a strong wind - Mistral ?, Tornado ?

Cant imagine why you've not tried this ?


Ridiculous - it will never work! It's obviously going to be physically impossible to balance something like that. What sort of fool do you take Grumpf for?
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5719
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 19 at 11:40am
Originally posted by CT249


Originally posted by rich96

So - you want a new craft that will compete/beat the Contenders, is
light, easy to launch recover etc ?

Perhaps start with a lightweight (20kg) hull. retracting daggerboard, approx 3.8m long, dispense with the wiggle stick and use a fixed 'mini rudder', set the rig from a track that slides fore and aft, dispense with those silly wire shrouds, install a flexible joint between the mast base and the track, dispense with those silly toe straps, stand more on it than in it, use your bodyweight to support the rig, cant the rig to windward, use feet and rig movement to steer

Give it a suitable name - perhaps after a strong wind - Mistral ?, Tornado ?

Cant imagine why you've not tried this ?




Ridiculous - it will never work! It's obviously going to be physically impossible to balance something like that. What sort of fool do you take Grumpf for?


I have, but the RYA won't recognise it on their handicap system even though they are supposed to be Windsurfings governing body, the last excuse I heard was that there were 'too radical differences between planing and none planing" Then they went and granted a yardstick to Foiling craft..
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5719
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 19 at 11:49am
Originally posted by Rupert

Captain Sparrow's post makes a lot of sense. More power, even within the current rule set, could just give you the nudge you need. If you can get planing at a point where the lasers are still displacement, you'll reduce the wind strength you need to beat them. That then gives on confidence in the boat, and a virtuous circle begins.

And developing a new sail, even a new rig, is cheaper than a whole boat!

And go visit other 3.7s for some mutual coaching/practice.


I agree and retain this as the current option, I've tried a fixed foil which had an effect but more negative than positive. The problem is that there aren't exactly T foil rudder shops you can just rock up and buy.

Re the sail I cut down a Vortex sail I had left over from the V2 and it does improve the off the start line capability in light airs and earlier trapezing so it is a thing I'm working on, I've asked my local sail builder who is unfortunately rushed off his feet with work in season and following his post I shall ask cap'n jack. We have a facebook page we chat about this stuff on but the problem is there are so few of us and we are all at the furthest points of the country South West, South East, Nosebleed West etc and some of the earlier class stalwarts that could help have had to give up through health issues.

But the big issue remains waterline length and as you suggested earlier, it needs stretching.

It's already like Triggers broom the bits I'm paying to have rebuilt, all in under two years of ownership and it's got to go back this winter for further repairs and upgrades. So sometimes you wonder wether it's good money after bad and better to clear the decks and start over, hence the quandry that started the thread.
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8338
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 19 at 2:39pm
I assume rudder is on a gantry?

Could be worth contacting Jo Richards, who designed a N12 with a T foil which whipped everything.

Edited by Rupert - 29 Sep 19 at 2:40pm
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
Back to Top
Dougaldog View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 05 Nov 10
Location: hamble
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 305
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 19 at 5:36pm
Graham - Delta has already given you a good idea - a low rider Moth, Up in North Wales Miles James is turning out Axeman hulls in Carbon - I think then come out at 8kg. Knowing how aware you are of the conditions at H&S, you could go for something a generation earlier than the Axeman - as Delta said, a Magnum (John Claridge still has the moulds) which is not only quick enough to easily beat the laserarti, but because the PY system was still playing catch up, if you get the right design you're not hauled back by a hefty PY number (the low riders now have a nice, official set of PYs on an age related sliding scale - but that is boat age, not you). Plus of course there is a lot of interest today in the low riders, so you'd not be the only lowrider in your village.
There is of course a downside: sailing a lowrider will put you at the bottom of a very steep learning curve and there is just no way around that. Moth sailors of yesteryear have all been there, sworn that they'd "burn the bloody thing" only to find themselves ripping past much faster boats on the water. At 70kg you'd be perfect, for less than the cost of your t-foil, you could be out there and getting to grips with the idea. Come to think about it...with all your boardsailing experience, the 'half on the wings' water start would be a natural progression for you. Once you've cracked the basics, then the world of innovation really is your oyster.... it is worthy of serious thought
D
Dougal H
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8338
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 19 at 6:40pm
Remembering GRFs comments in the past about how certain boats are impossible to sail (read, you can't just jump in and go) I don't think a low rider is the way to go.
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5719
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 19 at 7:27pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Remembering GRFs comments in the past about how certain boats are impossible to sail (read, you can't just jump in and go) I don't think a low rider is the way to go.


And you'd be right. I once race officered for the Moth Europeans held at Hythe back in 1988 or thereabouts, we had a practice race it was a light force 2-3 maybe early 4 tops. They ended up scattered between Hythe and Seabrooke 2 miles down the coast almost every groin had a moth stranded ashore. Don't think I'll be headed in that direction anytime soon if I were going to I might as well go the whole hog and foil.

Jack's now got me pondering how much more performance I could squeeze out of the 3.7, it is such a joy to sail, just not a great race boat in a handicap fleet where it's difficult to beat bloody Lasers over the water, never mind the spreadsheet, not that that even worrys me that much these days if I've had a great sail and half decent over the water result.
Back to Top
Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 08 Feb 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2920
Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 19 at 1:23pm
NZ Farr 3.7's regularly beat Lasers over the water.

Much of the issue when not powered up is downwind where Lasers are not hampered by shrouds. Adding an Asymmetric powers you up downwind in your handicap fleet. When you fleet race 3.7's (eventually) you are still legal and not handicapped by weight. You can remove correctors to compensate for your spinnaker kit, to 50kg. Hulls have been / can be built down to 30kg ish for this purpose.

Talk to Mike Cooke at Aardvark Technologies who could put you in touch with Kevin Ellway who could do the maths for a T Foil solution. Mike can sort your adjustable rudder system and 3D CNC the foil etc...

Talk to Chris Mitchel (NZ Americas Cup boffin and NZ 3.7 Class Sec) about your rig etc...

And all should be good.

edit: (retrofitting a spinnaker to your 3.7)

Look how good she looks:




Edited by Jack Sparrow - 30 Sep 19 at 2:00pm
Back to Top
Do Different View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 26 Jan 12
Location: North
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1011
Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 19 at 4:56am
Yes Jack it does look very good.

iGRF.  Admittedly I don't know the build issues which might have tainted your feelings but really two years is no time at all to tweak and get fully comfortable with a new boat.

It sounds like the ideal platform for your stature and from what Jack says it's not yet fully optimised in single sail form and then there's the kite option to explore. 

I know you've an inquisitive mind but just try thinking of the time you have in the bank with the 3.7 as an investment that with a little more time and tweaks will payout into a really nice package.

Alright it's a bit short. Com'on though, so are you and I, like what you have, shorties can have their day and where'd be the fun if it was always easy? Embrace your inner terrier and enjoy being an ankle nipper ( I do ).
       
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4567>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy