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Dare I even discuss a new class?

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 8:28am
Originally posted by Rupert

What happens if you stretch the Farr 3.7 concept to be more like 4.3

You get something rather like my Plusplus, which had a lot of the same DNA.







Edited by JimC - 27 Sep 19 at 1:38pm
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 9:08am
Buy a new Laser hull from LP, Laser 2 mast and standing rigging, better than Laser 1 rudder, redesigned dagger board that fits existing slot. Larger Laser 2 sail and wire should give you more speed than standard Laser 1 and in lighter winds you will be able to hike with other Laser 1 sailors.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 9:13am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Rupert

What happens if you stretch the Farr 3.7 concept to be more like 4.3

You get something rather like my Plusplus, which had a lot of the same DNA.


Sounds like we need to see pictures of the Plus Plus. I had thought that Rupert and it remains a relatively low-cost option, but as a marketable concept would it have the same appeal as something entirely new.

I'm also really impressed by the performance of the Aero 7, we've had a good guy learning how to get the best out of one on our water also this summer and there have been times when even on the wire (well semi wiring offwind) it has creamed past the Farr.) I do not like being overtaken and that's what's been going on all summer due to the lack of waterline length downwind.

So, would stretching the 3.7 stop that? It's already considerably heavier than an Aero.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 9:23am
Back to the concept, My thinking was split hull at the rear, mono bow. The two rear hulls would be canoe or div 2 hull shaped, centre tunnel joining them. the Tunnel would also provide a light wind trapezing point and help the kick out and a straddle point for elimination of kneeling down wind.

The Mono bow ends at the mast and centreboard case.

Having rounded rear hulls keeps wetted surface to the minimum for lake whilst also providing stability, not to wide this time so righting it isn't an issue like the V2.

Not being wide makes it also more suitable to trapezing or some form of wing for folk who don't want to trapeze, I think it should be optional.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 9:28am
Originally posted by 423zero

Buy a new Laser hull from LP, Laser 2 mast and standing rigging, better than Laser 1 rudder, redesigned dagger board that fits existing slot. Larger Laser 2 sail and wire should give you more speed than standard Laser 1 and in lighter winds you will be able to hike with other Laser 1 sailors.


HA, I had thought of that even. But it's not a great shape to trapeze off, like the aero, I had a look at that as I did the Phantom so see if I couldn't just put wires on something that already exists and the Phantom is probably the best to consider but it's still quite a step up from the inside onto the outer rail and you spend so much time in between in gusty wind.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 9:39am
Originally posted by davidyacht

I donít think traction is an issue for Graeme, despite his complete displeasure with the PY system he appears to have equal disdain for fleet racing.
What about a Toy?


Never come across a Toy and fleet racing does emphasise body differences even more in dinghy than it does in windsurfing and people whine about any activity one might consider to even things out, like pumping.

Originally posted by H2

Whilst I have never meet you Graeme I believe you are a small chap and hence relatively light weight (i.e. probably at or under 80kg). If that is the case you actually have a huge choice of boats already which are well established with large fleets nationally and internationally. Whilst these offerings sound like they do not appeal to you, I suspect that the issue will be convincing enough people to leave these well established classes to come join you!
If you were a larger chap then the options are much more limited with Finn, Phantom & Blaze traditionally being your choices which is why the H2 got some traction as this segment was less served than the weight category you fit into.
Personally, I think it will be very hard to get traction.


Yes, 5'6" 67 kgs maybe 70 in full kit. As for all the boats, I have cast my gaze wide and been through a few now and have yet to come across one that isn't flawed in one way or another, you also need to add Contender to your big guys list, along with the D1, MPS,RS700, RS600, RS300, RS100, EPS In fact I'd argue there's more for big guys than small, what do we have? Streaker? Lightning? Supersofa? Solution is a middle weights boat as is the Solo and the Laser with it's main rig if the breeze is up. The Farr is the right boat for my size, it's just not the right length as I've said all along.

Edited by iGRF - 27 Sep 19 at 9:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 12:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 1:01pm
When I owned a ToY I found it very heavy and lacking in power, despite the seat. Shroud base too far back to do more than broad reach, but the speed wasn't there to make it worth it. Too easily beaten by Lasers.

A modern take on the concept, half the weight, maybe with a similar bow but with GRFs tunnel hull aft, if we have to!
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Buy a new Laser hull from LP, Laser 2 mast and standing rigging, better than Laser 1 rudder, redesigned dagger board that fits existing slot. Larger Laser 2 sail and wire should give you more speed than standard Laser 1 and in lighter winds you will be able to hike with other Laser 1 sailors.


Can you fit a L2 rig on a Laser ?.

One is totally unstayed ?

One sail or 2 ?

This surely is not a great plan.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by davidyacht

I donít think traction is an issue for Graeme, despite his complete displeasure with the PY system he appears to have equal disdain for fleet racing.
What about a Toy?


Never come across a Toy and fleet racing does emphasise body differences even more in dinghy than it does in windsurfing and people whine about any activity one might consider to even things out, like pumping.

Originally posted by H2

Whilst I have never meet you Graeme I believe you are a small chap and hence relatively light weight (i.e. probably at or under 80kg). If that is the case you actually have a huge choice of boats already which are well established with large fleets nationally and internationally. Whilst these offerings sound like they do not appeal to you, I suspect that the issue will be convincing enough people to leave these well established classes to come join you!
If you were a larger chap then the options are much more limited with Finn, Phantom & Blaze traditionally being your choices which is why the H2 got some traction as this segment was less served than the weight category you fit into.
Personally, I think it will be very hard to get traction.


Yes, 5'6" 67 kgs maybe 70 in full kit. As for all the boats, I have cast my gaze wide and been through a few now and have yet to come across one that isn't flawed in one way or another, you also need to add Contender to your big guys list, along with the D1, MPS,RS700, RS600, RS300, RS100, EPS In fact I'd argue there's more for big guys than small, what do we have? Streaker? Lightning? Supersofa? Solution is a middle weights boat as is the Solo and the Laser with it's main rig if the breeze is up. The Farr is the right boat for my size, it's just not the right length as I've said all along.


Buy a Contender. Get a flat cut sail for the breezy days.

Accept that, at your size, you wont be quick in breeze (the same will really apply to any single hander)

Enjoy the light days.

Learn to sail it to the point that the limiting factor isn't you

Then - once you have pushed the boat to its limit - think about what you could do to make it better

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