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Dare I even discuss a new class?

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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dare I even discuss a new class?
    Posted: 26 Sep 19 at 8:20pm
I'm currently in a quandry, either to cave in in my mind and buy a Contender, a boat that although excellent in its day, I find rather too heavy and in all probability I'm too light and short for it anyway. Our club has two fleets now, it's either the Lasers or the Contenders that are populated by our most competitive sailors and this season I've really struggled to the point a couple of times I just can't be asked to pit the Farr 3.7 against them and have been losing my mojo.

Don't get me wrong it's a lovely boat, really nice to sail, and has served me well these past two years in learning the ins and outs of single hand trapezing, but so very seldom do I even manage to beat Lasers over the water, never mind on handicap.

So the mind often dwells on what would be an ideal for my circumstances, which are obviously long on years and short on time left with faculties, so I contacted Dan Holman, who drew up the dreaded V2 for me (and advised against it)to see if he'd be interested in another go, this time with a whole bunch more experience than last time and a whole different requirement.

I wondered about something that would be at home inland or on the sea, that could be set up to trap, or have optional rack/seats, that you didn't have to kneel going downwind, that can run by the lee, that can be depowered on the fly, that would be stable at rest with noone on board, that had retracting foils without the requirement for flushing strips, and that could be designed in such a way that a self build was an option, and that could be built to weigh less than 50 kgs all up and beat Lasers at all points of sailing in light winds.

Why am I doing this online? I guess to find out if there is any interest in such a craft given that the one thing I do miss is having something or someone of similar speed to race against and am slowly coming to the class view (we have four solutions now down the lake).

Dan talks of around twenty grand for a custom build, but then all you have is one. So I wondered if having got the custom job going wether it could also have home build plans as an option and anyone esle might be persuaded, first step would obviously be renders which do cost time and money.

Anyway Dinghy development is the section title, lets bat it about at least, chuck some cold water, maybe this time I'll listen.

Edited by iGRF - 27 Sep 19 at 2:29pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 19 at 8:41pm
Its an awful lot easier to build a boat than start a class. I offered my PlusPlus up as a new class, with rules worked out, drawings (but not full building plans) available, all the rest of it. There was lots of talk, but zero action. I think unless you are an established builder you really need a reasonable number of people who will all build their boats at the same time to give a nucleus.

Of course if you're a billionaire and wish to start or even revive a class you spend loads of cash, maybe build boats for loan, get pro sailors in, all the rest of it, and maybe call it the Whatever Sailor's league. Maybe make it multi billionaire?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 19 at 8:53pm
What happens if you stretch the Farr 3.7 concept to be more like 4.3, giving the extra waterline length to take on the Laser in the light stuff, but with the boxier hull shape both for stability and to give the high wind planing surface. You'd still lose out to the Laser in a real drift simply on wetted surface, but once hull length kicks in, with a far more efficient rig you'd be away.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 19 at 9:09pm
Just a thought; but would T-foil offer more stable planing performance with a slippery low prismatic hull?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 19 at 9:13pm
It would, but would still fall over when left tied to the shore!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 19 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by Rupert

It would, but would still fall over when left tied to the shore!

I guess that you canít have it all ... floating racks?  Something like the Rocket Moth wings?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 5:03am
I believe Jim Hunt won the phantom national champs when he weighed around 12 stone. If you are good then much of this optimum weight stuff goes by the way. I liked my Contender although it frustrated me in the light stuff when sailing with lasers that were nearly as quick on a pond, but if all was good we wouldn't have anything to talk about on the forum.

Buy a Contender, join your local fleet and enjoy winning in the lighter wind.

We stopped needing new designs about 10 new boats ago.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 7:25am
People have been saying we don't need new designs since Victorian times. I glad some people don't listen, from Linton Hope to Dan Holman via Morgan Giles, Uffa Fox, Ian Proctor, Jack Holt, Phil Morrison and a plethora of others.

As for "you can't have it all", we have been telling GRF that since he joined the forum. He hasn't listened yet, so maybe it's up to us now to figure out how to get the initial stability of a west wight scow coupled with the speed of a Contender with one hull, with the ability to go fast throughout the wind range.

For the latter, in some ways I think we have to take a look back at designs from the 60s, and branch out in a different direction from the high speed blasting boats which have come more recently, such as the Musto Skiff or the 49er, and also ignore all the heavy boats which have been designed with a nod to those boats, from pretty much every rotomould with a bowsprit to glass cruiser racers like the 2000 which get stability by being grossly overweight.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 7:50am
Whilst I have never meet you Graeme I believe you are a small chap and hence relatively light weight (i.e. probably at or under 80kg). If that is the case you actually have a huge choice of boats already which are well established with large fleets nationally and internationally. Whilst these offerings sound like they do not appeal to you, I suspect that the issue will be convincing enough people to leave these well established classes to come join you!

If you were a larger chap then the options are much more limited with Finn, Phantom & Blaze traditionally being your choices which is why the H2 got some traction as this segment was less served than the weight category you fit into.

Personally, I think it will be very hard to get traction.
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 19 at 8:03am
I donít think traction is an issue for Graeme, despite his complete displeasure with the PY system he appears to have equal disdain for fleet racing.

What about a Toy?
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