New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Race rules...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Race rules...

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8215
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 19 at 5:40pm
If you try it, be prepared to tack off on the wrong side of the mark and gybe round and find another gap if the door is slammed in your face. Quicker than a 720, generally, and no infringement. Just accept it doesn't always work!
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
Back to Top
bustinben View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 15 Oct 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 283
Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 19 at 10:59am
There's an important point that mozzy made which is in danger of getting lost...

If those 4 boats all line up nose to tail from the mark to make their rounding, then green is overlapped with red when red reaches the zone.

Anyone lined up bow to stern with 3 boats between them and the mark has to give room to pretty much everyone still coming down the course.  Don't put yourself in that situation, and if you see it, take advantage of it!


3 boats in front of them could be a tough argument in the room.  4 is easier.  5 is a slam dunk.



Edited by bustinben - 13 Sep 19 at 11:01am
Back to Top
deadrock View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 24 Jun 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 64
Post Options Post Options   Quote deadrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 19 at 10:27pm
In the four-boats-in-a-line situation described above, one possible approach is to claim water on No. 4, let it go through in front if it refuses your call, then protest.

It used to be so much easier with the two-boat-length rule!

Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8215
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 19 at 1:00pm
Be so much easier if we could spray paint 3 boat lengths on the water round each buoy.
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
Back to Top
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2207
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 19 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by deadrock

In the four-boats-in-a-line situation described above, one possible approach is to claim water on No. 4, let it go through in front if it refuses your call, then protest.

It used to be so much easier with the two-boat-length rule!


But you can only claim mark room over boat #4 (red/shouty man?) if you have an overlap when he reaches the 3 length zone.
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Back to Top
deadrock View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 24 Jun 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 64
Post Options Post Options   Quote deadrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 19 at 6:23pm
As bustinben points out, if 'red shouty' boat has lined up behind three or more other boats rounding the mark in turn, it is a logical and sound indication that it is outside the three-boats circle. Even if it was earlier inside the 3-boat circle, going outside the circle to make a tight and tidy rounding nullifies any claim to mark room.
If you are directly upwind of the mark, or even laterally one or two boat-lengths to starboard (assuming a port-hand rounding) you will be entitled to mark-room if your boat is overlapped by being forward of shouty-boat's transom as it (re)enters the three-boat circle. (See definition of Overlap in the RRS definitions: Clear Astern and Clear Ahead; Overlap:
"One boat is clear astern of another when her hull and equipment in normal position are behind a line abeam from the aftermost point of the other boat’s hull and equipment in normal position. The other boat is clear ahead. They overlap when neither is clear astern."
Being entitled to mark room is one thing; making it stick is another. The advantage of allowing red shouty boat to round first and then protesting is that you cannot be penalised (unless it could somehow be construed as intimidating behaviour?).
Back to Top
ColPrice2002 View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 25 Nov 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 147
Post Options Post Options   Quote ColPrice2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 19 at 8:58pm
Rule 18.2
"f. If a boat obtained an inside overlap from clear astern or by tacking to windward of the other boat and, from the time the overlap begins, the outside boat has been unable to give mark-room, she is not required to give it."

There are limits to claiming mark room...

Colin
Back to Top
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2207
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 19 at 9:31am
We only have the OP's diagram to go from, in it red is clearly well inside the zone and green clearly has no overlap so has no right to mark room. 
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Back to Top
Brass View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 08
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 942
Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 19 at 10:17am
As I scale the diagram R is not quite in the zone and G is just over a boatlength clear astern of R, and a smidgen further from the zone.

R is overlapped outside all the black boats, who have reached the zone, and required to give them mark-room (rule 18.2b).

G is clear astern of all the black boats and required to give them mark-room (rule 18.2b).

Next instant, R will have reached the zone clear ahead of G and G will be required to give R mark-room (rule 18.2b).

If there was any doubt about overlap, G, having previously been clear astern shall be presumed not to have become overlapped in time (rule 18.2d).

G is quite at liberty to go into the gap and round close behind the inside boat, but she does so at her own risk.

Definitions, Mark-Room
Rule 18.2(b), Mark-Room: Giving Mark-Room
Rule 18.2(c)(2), Mark-Room: Giving Mark-Room
Rule 21(a), Exoneration
At a mark, when space is made available to a boat that is not entitled to it, she may, at her own risk, take advantage of the space.


Sure R can back off and unhook herself from Black then try to stick it to G, but she'll have a long way to go to get to G, and shouters aren't usually that smart.

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

I would say that R is about half a length inside the zone, but it's academic unless G had an overlap. The OP says "I'm coming up a couple of boat lengths behind" which implies he did not.

True enough.


Edited by Brass - 15 Sep 19 at 10:48am
Back to Top
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2207
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 19 at 10:27am
I would say that R is about half a length inside the zone, but it's academic unless G had an overlap. The OP says "I'm coming up a couple of boat lengths behind" which implies he did not.
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy