New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Solo changes survey
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Solo changes survey

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910 21>
Author
ian.r.mcdonald View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 24 Feb 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 440
Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 19 at 3:52am
Originally posted by JimC

If every competitive boat in the fleet is carrying lead, then the lead is pointless and ditching it just saves hassle and takes a few quid of the cost of new boats.


Agreed, but there are lots of Solos racing with either no lead or a smaller than 3 kg correctors. So you are suggesting that boats not attending championships or major events should be ignored as far as rule changes are concerned?
Back to Top
tink View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 23 Jan 16
Location: North Hants
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 667
Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 19 at 6:10am
Originally posted by JimC

If every competitive boat in the fleet is carrying lead, then the lead is pointless and ditching it just saves hassle and takes a few quid of the cost of new boats.
The carrying of lead is the most sensible aspect of one designs. It enables someone to dip into the class and buy an older boat and compete roughly on equal term with newer hotshots.

I really really really gets me angry that classes are run for the guys in the top 20% with up to date kit. Sailors battling it out in the bottom 20% are equally valid and their experience and enjoyment of the race equally, if not more important, that of the guys at the top. 

Any class thatís prime objective is that any boat less than ten years on is still competitive within top 20% and twenty year old boats within  top 50% deserves to wither and die. 
Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048
Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 19 at 6:49am
Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by JimC

If every competitive boat in the fleet is carrying lead, then the lead is pointless and ditching it just saves hassle and takes a few quid of the cost of new boats.
The carrying of lead is the most sensible aspect of one designs. It enables someone to dip into the class and buy an older boat and compete roughly on equal term with newer hotshots.

I really really really gets me angry that classes are run for the guys in the top 20% with up to date kit. Sailors battling it out in the bottom 20% are equally valid and their experience and enjoyment of the race equally, if not more important, that of the guys at the top. 

Any class thatís prime objective is that any boat less than ten years on is still competitive within top 20% and twenty year old boats within  top 50% deserves to wither and die. 

The problem is that Joe Q Clubsailor with his older Solo is unlikely to be a member of the Class Association. So when this kind of thing get bought up only those who are get to vote on them (and rightly so). As that is usually those who do championship events and open meetings it will normally mean those with newer kit that has the relevant amount of lead that can removed. I am sure there will also be a way to remove the 'coffee table' on older boats (not sure what this would weigh but it could be a proportion of the 3kg drop meaning front of the fleet boats will still carry lead). The other thing it could also lead to is lighter construction as if they dont change the 'max correctors' allowance then boat builders will take material out of other areas and keep the lead at the max.

Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
sargesail View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1411
Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 19 at 7:11am
Or to put it another way: if you donít want your class changed then join the CA and vote!
Back to Top
davidyacht View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 29 Mar 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1205
Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 19 at 7:20am
Originally posted by sargesail

Or to put it another way: if you donít want your class changed then join the CA and vote!
 
Problem with the Solo Class Association is that there is no provision for postal voting and AGMs are held at the Nationals, which is not a representative sample of the majority of the membership ... not much of a problem for a class that is simply managing its one design principles, but not very flexible if someone brings radical changes to the table.


Happily living in the past
Back to Top
davidyacht View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 29 Mar 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1205
Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 19 at 7:22am
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by tink

Originally posted by JimC

If every competitive boat in the fleet is carrying lead, then the lead is pointless and ditching it just saves hassle and takes a few quid of the cost of new boats.
The carrying of lead is the most sensible aspect of one designs. It enables someone to dip into the class and buy an older boat and compete roughly on equal term with newer hotshots.

I really really really gets me angry that classes are run for the guys in the top 20% with up to date kit. Sailors battling it out in the bottom 20% are equally valid and their experience and enjoyment of the race equally, if not more important, that of the guys at the top. 

Any class thatís prime objective is that any boat less than ten years on is still competitive within top 20% and twenty year old boats within  top 50% deserves to wither and die. 

The problem is that Joe Q Clubsailor with his older Solo is unlikely to be a member of the Class Association. So when this kind of thing get bought up only those who are get to vote on them (and rightly so). As that is usually those who do championship events and open meetings it will normally mean those with newer kit that has the relevant amount of lead that can removed. I am sure there will also be a way to remove the 'coffee table' on older boats (not sure what this would weigh but it could be a proportion of the 3kg drop meaning front of the fleet boats will still carry lead). The other thing it could also lead to is lighter construction as if they dont change the 'max correctors' allowance then boat builders will take material out of other areas and keep the lead at the max.


From a construction perspective reducing weight should not prove a problem, the bottom of the coffee table and mainsheet capping is full of clinker, anyone who has tried to drill into it will attest.
Happily living in the past
Back to Top
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3124
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 19 at 8:09am
Ah, it's just as I suspected, it will actually make new boats more expensive and more fragile as they won't be removing the 'max corrector' rule just reducing the min weight. The only people who will benefit are the owners of current boats who will have a tiny bit less weight to pull up the slip (it will make no difference on the water) and the measurers who will be paid to reweigh the boats (maybe the sailors can partially offset this cost by weighing in the lead (£2.75/kg))  Disapprove
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Back to Top
salmon80 View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 29 Nov 10
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 108
Post Options Post Options   Quote salmon80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 19 at 8:47am
On some solos the coffee table weighs around 7-8 kilos, I think the builder accidentally added foundry ash to the layup 😉😉😉😉

That would keep those boats competitive 

Back to Top
ian.r.mcdonald View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 24 Feb 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 440
Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 19 at 8:47am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Ah, it's just as I suspected, it will actually make new boats more expensive and more fragile as they won't be removing the 'max corrector' rule just reducing the min weight. The only people who will benefit are the owners of current boats who will have a tiny bit less weight to pull up the slip (it will make no difference on the water) and the measurers who will be paid to reweigh the boats (maybe the sailors can partially offset this cost by weighing in the lead (£2.75/kg))† Disapprove


I would imagine that new boats have a significant amount of resin slopped on to get the hull within 3kg. So new boats will be as strong, just less unwanted resin. What would be wrong in following the Merlins and putting extra lead in?

Perhaps as the owner of a competitive club boat with no correctors ( and loyal assoc member) my only option is to accept my boat will be overweight, and worth less if I ever sell it.

My understanding is that this questionnaire was sent to members that had agreed to accept emails from the assoc. A very significant proportion of the members therefore were not involved or asked their views. I dont think it would be unfair to assume that a member without email access or not happy to receive emails is perhaps more likely to be an owner of an older or classic boat.
Back to Top
Noah View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Dec 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 592
Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 19 at 8:55am
I feel that a lot of the discussion over changes to OD (rather than SMOD) classes is down to the longevity of decent quality boats produced by the likes of Winder, Ovi and others. 
When boats lasted a couple of seasons as a really competitive package minor, ongoing change was more accepted. My boat is now 16 years old and cosmetically showing her age. Structurally - sound as a pound. Yes - the latest iterations may be a few % earlier to plane, or a few % stiffer, but the biggest problem on the race course, for me, is the nut on the tiller.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910 21>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy