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Big Fleet Regattas - Chicken and Egg |
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Alistair426
Far too distracted from work Joined: 02 Jun 08 Location: Vatican City State Online Status: Offline Posts: 201 |
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Topic: Big Fleet Regattas - Chicken and Egg Posted: 24 Aug 19 at 7:18pm |
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RS400atC...I think you may have your Bithells and Birrells mixed-up....although they have both won the Merlin Nationals.
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Hitcher
Newbie Joined: 21 Dec 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 38 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Aug 19 at 7:28pm | |
I think you might have got Christian Birrell and Stuart Bithell mixed up. They do sail together sometimes and Christian may think he is better that Stu but he hasn't won a medal. A YandY interview from a few years ago..."You can't be writing down that I've learned anything from him – in fact, I like to say that sailing with me was a big contribution to him winning a silver medal!" You also left out Sam, who is a pretty good sailor, and they have been a team in several classes for a while.
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RS400atC
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Aug 19 at 8:12pm | |
Guilty as charged! But the real point of both of them being slightly/somewhat better than Nick Craig who lacks challenge in most 'amateur' fleets stands. The chance to race against people of this calibre is a big draw to certain classes. I know people who race Etchells, when you're racing against legends, you don't have to win to prop up your self respect.. Personally, I'm a complete amateur and just in it for fun, but I'd rather try and learn/improve from people who've come 10th in a serious fleet like the Merlins than people who won in a 'niche' fleet to be polite. Having said that, there are good sailors sailing all sorts of boats, beating people in some local classes is not trivial. But if you keep winning in a small pool of talent, why not get out into a wider world if you can?
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RS400atC
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Aug 19 at 8:16pm | |
Mild understatement du jour?
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DiscoBall
Far too distracted from work Joined: 03 Jan 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 305 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Aug 19 at 9:11pm | |
Isn't there a slight irony in that IIRC Roger Gilbert got into the Merlins due to a challenge along the lines of 'the Merlins are tougher than the 200s' and promptly cleaned up for several years?
The concentration of talent since there has been impressive to watch certainly, but whether the Merlins have always been as superior as the PR makes out............. I've crewed and helmed several Merlin champs and a Salcombe. Would say the champs in the pack is fine as there's plenty of space on the big courses. Salcombe in the pack rather more stressful. |
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rich96
Really should get out more Joined: 20 Jan 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 596 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Aug 19 at 9:43am | |
Looking at the mid fleet Merlin helm/crew names tells its own story - it must be the highest quality national fleet ?
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salmon80
Posting king Joined: 29 Nov 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 119 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 25 Aug 19 at 10:32am | |
Its an amazing fleet of course. I think Nick Craig has done amazing to come 4th having been racing enterprises last week and B14s the week before that world champ b14, race winner ents and in a bunch of 4-5 quite clear in the merlins |
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CT249
Far too distracted from work Joined: 08 Jul 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Aug 19 at 12:06am | |
I've seen Merliners claim more than once that they have the world's best fleet, or the best non-Olympic fleet. That is such a bizarre claim. Logically, the only way one could make it is if one knew the strength of every other fleet in the world, and who has the required information and can make an informed and unbiased decision about it? How do you define the strength of a fleet anyway? How far down do you go? How much allowance do you give for the fact that a class national champion may never have cracked the top 40 in the world champs in an Olympic class, but may have been training hard for years in their amateur class? How do you compare that to classes where gold medallists hop in to sail with their partners but don't put in a campaign? What about one where people with two medals win, but narrowly? How do you compare that to classes where Olympic finalists in a different discipline do a fairly serious campaign and get beaten? What about a class that a multiple world champ and Olympic medallist sails at club level each week and yet barely makes it into the top quarter of regional masters titles - and yet in which sailors who have never won anywhere else can win a masters worlds after doing a serious campaign? How do you assess the margin of a win or defeat, across different classes and types? It just seems all but impossible to accurately make any ranking of a class' standard, IMHO.
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davidyacht
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Aug 19 at 7:23am | |
I wonder how many Nationals, Europeans and World Championships, not forgetting Endeavours in other classes have been won by Merlin OWNERS competing at this years Merlin Nationals ... Craig, McGrane, Fells, Henderson(s), Birrell, Turner, Blake, Davis, Wade, Hall, Gorringe, Croft, Saxton, Sharps, Martin(s), Mackley, Meadowcroft could be a starting point?
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Happily living in the past
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2547
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Aug 19 at 8:03am | |
There is no doubt the Meerlin is a strong fleet but to claim that above others seems a bit desperate. It shows a little bit of arrogance and does them no favours.
The strongest two handed non Olympic is probably the 505, followed by the Snipe or Tasar. Not that deep in the UK where National classes exist but these are proper international classes.
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